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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Pisenberg (talk | contribs) at 14:29, 17 October 2023 (added my user name). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications

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IEEE Computer Graphics and Applications (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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No indication that this journal is notable on its own; I could not find sufficient secondary sources that discuss it directly to establish notability under WP:GNG. The previous redirect would be a good WP:ATD. Actualcpscm scrutinize, talk 17:02, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

  • Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Academic journals and Computing. Actualcpscm scrutinize, talk 17:03, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    If I understand the [WP:GNG] correctly, then I need to show significance from reliable sources, that are independent of the subject. In the sciences Scopus is considered a reliable source of journal rankings that can show the significance of the journal. Here is the CG&A page - would that be ok? There is a Google Scholar page of rankings for computer graphics journals and CG&A is ranked 6th. To show significant coverage, the metrics on those pages show that the journal attracts authors and that the articles they publish are also frequently cited. Would it help to add these citations to prevent deletion of the page? Pisenberg (talk) 19:14, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Hi @Pisenberg. The problem with those is that they do not provide significant coverage of the journal. What exactly constitutes significant coverage is a bit ambiguous, but it requires at least some prose (not just data points) and at least some analysis (from the guideline: "so that no original research is needed to extract the content"). Database entries like the ones provided here do not typically contribute to establishing notability under WP:GNG.
    As a small side note, it's not necessary to include sources in an article to establish notability through them. From WP:NEXIST: Notability requires only the existence of suitable [...] sources, not their immediate presence or citation in an article. So you don't need to worry about that aspect here. Actualcpscm scrutinize, talk 20:55, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It should be noted that this is a scientific peer-reviewed magazine. A magazine's notability is proofed by citations and journal rankings. You can think of a scientific citation as a way in which scientific publications talk about the content in other publications. It's relatively rare to find externals sources such as newspaper articles or books that talk about a scientific magazine as an entity - they will take about individual pieces of content via citations. The fact that CG&A is highly ranked in computer graphics and has a high number of citations means that people read the magazine and write about its content - and as such that it is notable in the scientific community. Pisenberg (talk) 21:01, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Apart from citations I can also find university pages that announced proudly about their faculty receiving awards from cg&a (here or here ) Pisenberg (talk) 21:11, 16 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Speedy close.Keep. A major publication in the area. The article was created a couple hours ago. As a first step, you have to place the "Notability" tag on the page, to give the creator chance to find more sources. No wonder you didnt find sources: google search is littered by irrelevant hits, and only an expert, who knowns where to look can find good sources. - Altenmann >talk

Newly created articles are checked for notability as part of WP:NPP. The creator stopped editing this page more than 6 hours ago, and I don't think the argument that it might be difficult to locate hypothetical sources actually does much to establish notability. Actualcpscm scrutinize, talk 17:27, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
My argument is not about notability, but about giving people a leeway in editing. "6 hours ago" is poor argument: we all have a real life, you know. Therefore in my times it was polite to give a full day for a response. Not all editors are experts in our notability guideline, so you should give them a slack if it is not an outright nonsense or shameless promo. Personally I didnt find it notable, therefore I created this page as a redirect a long time ago. - Altenmann >talk 18:13, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I understand what you mean, but there is plenty of time to discuss the issue at AfD; after all, that's what it's for. Nominating at AfD, at least to me, just means to create a space for a focussed discussion regarding deletion. It does not pass a final judgement on notability. Regarding notifying the creator, I do admit that that's an oversight on my part; the Page Curation script automatically notifies the original creator, in this case you. I should have notified the editor who expanded it from a redirect, thanks for taking care of that yourself. Actualcpscm scrutinize, talk 18:45, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
P.S. Heck, you even didnt bother to notify the page author about this discussion. A nice boot welcome to a newcomer. - Altenmann >talk 18:23, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. That the artcile was only recently created is of no importance, so a speedy close for that reason is out of the question. The AfD will run for 7 days, providing ample time to improve the article, if possible (which it is, see below). It might have been better to create it as a draft, but that's moot now. In any case, MIAR reports that this journal (not a magazine) is indexed in a number of important, selective databases (Science Citation Index Expanded, Scopus, and MEDLINE), so this is a clear meet of WP:NJournals. --Randykitty (talk) 21:49, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Randykitty NJOURNALS is an essay, it doesn‘t have the broad consensus behind it that supports notability guidelines; the journal needs to meet GNG, and entries in selective databases are not GNG sources. Actualcpscm scrutinize, talk 22:09, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    See WP:1Q. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 10:39, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Sorry, this is my first Wikipedia edit. Next time I will create a draft. Thank you for helping to make the page better! Pisenberg (talk) 13:45, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep It's a kind of topic that I expect to find when I open an encyclopedia, it's distinct enough from related topics to warrant a page of its own, and we have the information to write about it. Nor is it a fringe journal; there is no risk of giving a pseudoscientific/crankish publication more respectability than it deserves. XOR'easter (talk) 22:30, 13 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. This meets the standard of "something I have heard of outside Wikipedia", so I'd like to argue for keeping it, but of course that's not actually a Wikipedia notability standard. It would be helpful if we could at least get enough depth of sourcing to clarify whether this is a trade magazine, a peer-reviewed journal, one or the other at different times in its history, or something of both. I can find books calling it a technical journal [1], "a technical journal that almost comes into the magazine category" [2], or a monthly magazine [3] but without much detail that would help explain those labels. —David Eppstein (talk) 07:14, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • It describes itself as a magazine, but the rest of the description (a "mix of opinion pieces and peer-reviewed research articles") sounds like Science or Nature, both of which we call "journals", not magazines. --Randykitty (talk) 10:59, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I think "something of both" is also an accurate description of those: they have large amounts of editorial rather than peer-reviewed-research content (like a magazine not a journal), they are filled with ads (like a magazine not a journal), but they also have a big section of peer-reviewed research content that subscribers tend not to read (like a journal not a magazine). I would view the fact that our articles don't describe this more clearly as a bug, not as something to be emulated. —David Eppstein (talk) 18:05, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete, this does not appear to meet the GNG, which, unlike NJOURNALS, is an actual guideline. Passing mentions are not sufficient to establish notability for any other topics, and thus do not merit an article just because some editors consider "journals" to be inherently encyclopedic.
JoelleJay (talk) 17:50, 14 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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