Talk:Paul Graham (programmer)

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The content of Blub (programming) was merged into Paul Graham (programmer) on 05 September 2008. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists. For the discussion at that ___location, see its talk page.

Arc (programming language) was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 19 March 2015 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Paul Graham (programmer). The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here.

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Graham's hierarchy of disagreement?

Latest comment: 2 years ago5 comments5 people in discussion

I have seen this hierarchy around, and find it and its associated figure compelling. But reading this article, I am wondering why this discussion has such notability, such that it warrants an inclusion in the article. I don't challenge the inclusion, I merely ask for additional development that supports why it is important. Is it famous? Why? Where? etc. The supporting citation is to a blogging essay, hardly the sort of substantive citation for Wikipedia. Bdushaw (talk) 22:03, 19 February 2021 (UTC)Reply

I’d also like to know. It seems that any popularity it enjoys presently has in part to do with it being included in this Wikipedia article, which makes it seem self-promotional rather than gaining popularity on its own merit. Louie Mantia (talk) 23:12, 30 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

I found it coming from here Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions at the top of this page the diagram is there with the a link to this page. At first I thought that was really cool a programmer came up with this but something just feels off that this concept would be novel when behavioral psychology has a couple hundred years of a lead on this developer to coin something like this. I will spend some time looking to see if I can find a older concept that this is derived from or a reason it was specifically chosen for the rules page. Maxinfet (talk) 23:52, 1 November 2022 (UTC)Reply

It doesn't. No RS notability. I've removed it unless and until some is shown - David Gerard (talk) 21:59, 9 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

is it not funny how the hierarchy of disagreement section damages both the credibility of this article and it’s subject at the same time. 141.0.145.227 (talk) 22:22, 3 June 2023 (UTC)Reply

Career

Latest comment: 2 years ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Paul Graham’s career may span creating startups as well as academic research, though the last few lines of his Career section appear to be… notes about things he’s doing that are unrelated to his career. To me, it almost reads like a news feed from his own website: Paul stopped inviting people to events, Paul stepped down, Paul announced something. I feel like there should be more substance here (if there is substance). From what I can tell, Paul has written essays (which, I’d love clarification on whether these are ‘essays’ or ‘blog posts’) and done little else career-wise since about 2014 when he left YCombinator. Louie Mantia (talk) 23:26, 30 June 2021 (UTC)Reply

yeah, it's basically fan posting. Graham is notable, but that doesn't mean blog posts of no particular real-world impact should be in the article - David Gerard (talk) 22:47, 9 May 2023 (UTC)Reply

Removal of diagram

Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hello, I wanted you to know that I restored Graham's Hierarchy of Disagreement to his biography. You noted in your edit summary that blogs and newsletters are not reliable sources, which is generally true. However I think you may have been too hasty and literal in this case. 1) The "blog" cited is under control of the subject himself and 2) the newsletter cited is a Wikipedia newsletter explaining how Wikipedia uses his Hierarchy. I have also added a source from The Guardian. When it comes to WP:GUNREL sources we can use them provided, "...The source may still be used for uncontroversial self-descriptions, and self-published or user-generated content authored by established subject-matter experts is also acceptable." Given these arguments I'm not seeing where the sourcing is so deficient as to warrant removal.
Given some admin's using Graham's Hierarchy to set discussion tone (see User talk:Beeblebrox) it would be a shame to keep this out. If you still disagree I suggest that we start a discussion on the Paul Graham talk page and invite other editors to join in. Best regards, Blue Riband► 01:18, 28 October 2023 (UTC)Reply

I think Paul Graham is an established expert on programming, but psychology stuff? I think it's fine to use the diagram in a Wikipedia policy page, but not in his biography. The Guardian source is a bit small to make it warrant an entire section. I am still in favor of removing it here. PhotographyEdits (talk) 17:12, 31 October 2023 (UTC)Reply