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Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment

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Arbitration Committee proceedings

Currently, there are no requests for arbitration.

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Open cases
Case name Links Evidence due Prop. Dec. due
Transgender healthcare and people (t) (ev / t) (ws / t) (pd / t) 11 Aug 2025 25 Aug 2025
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Recently closed cases (Past cases)
Case name Closed
Article titles and capitalisation 2 22 August 2025
Request name Motions  Case Posted
Clarification request: Indian military history none (orig. case) 22 July 2025
Amendment request: Venezuelan politics none (orig. case) 6 August 2025
Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4 none (orig. case) 25 August 2025
Motion name Date posted
CTOP/AE page protection logging 21 August 2025
Requests for clarification and amendment

Use this page to request clarification or amendment of a closed Arbitration Committee case or decision.

  • Requests for clarification are used to ask for further guidance or clarification about an existing completed Arbitration Committee case or decision.
  • Requests for amendment are used to ask for an amendment or extension of existing sanctions (for instance, because the sanctions are ineffective, contain a loophole, or no longer cover a sufficiently wide topic); or appeal for the removal of sanctions (including bans).

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  4. Add the diffs of the talk page notifications under the applicable header of the request.
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Clarification request: Indian military history

There is consensus that Tamzin's explanation is spot on. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:05, 24 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

Initiated by Toadspike at 11:35, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
Indian military history arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)

List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request:

Statement by Toadspike

1. Does the Indian military history extended-confirmed restriction apply only to military history on the current (post-Partition) territory of the country of India, or does it include military history that took place entirely in another South Asian country?

2. If a conflict took place between a party in India and a party outside of India, does the extended-confirmed restriction apply? Does this depend on whether battles in the conflict took place within the current territory of India or not?

3. How do we treat AfC submissions that were written before the enactment of this remedy, but are only now being reviewed? If they are suitable for acceptance, can they still be accepted? If not, should they be deleted (from draftspace)?

These questions were prompted by the contributions of a specific editor. As this request for clarification is about the general principles, not that specific case, I have chosen not to name them here. If Arbs would like me to add them as a party, I will do so.

@ScottishFinnishRadish Thank you for your reply. Does "India" mean the current territory of India or the current state of India? What I'm really getting at is whether predecessors of India like British India also count as "India", since those entities included significant territory outside of the modern state of India.
The problem with wording like "if India was involved" is that nearly all of the conflict about "Indian military history" does not involve the modern state of India.

Statement by voorts

Since we're already here, does "Indian military history" encompass contemporary conflicts? If not, what's the cut off date or era? voorts (talk/contributions) 14:03, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Koshuri Sultan

I was planning to initiate this request per my comments on the case discussion thread.[1] Just as voorts asked above, you can see the linked discussion there, which also has no answer regarding the scope.

Does the scope of "Indian military history and the history of castes in India" cover times before the establishment of British Raj or the times before the foundation of India? Koshuri (あ!) 14:32, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

@Sdrqaz: Reading the evidence and proposed decision of the case itself, it appears that only the diffs involving the events before 1857 events were found to be actionable for being within the case' scope.
You have made a mention of the United States, however, the DS regime covering this country also concerns its politics specifically after 1992.[2]
That said, I think a period should be thoroughly clarified. It would be reasonable to agree on events before 1947 as history because the period since 1947 is regarded as "contemporary India", not that of historical India also in scholarly sources.[3][4][5] Koshuri (あ!) 06:58, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Donner60

  • Please note that the military history project has an Indian military history task force shown at the page Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Indian military history task force. The page includes: "This task force covers the military history of India. This includes ancient India, medieval India, early modern India (including the period of British rule), and modern post-independence India." Many, perhaps even all, articles that gave rise to this proceeding are assessed B class or below. The task force page shows all of the articles within the scope of the project that are featured articles, former featured articles, featured lists, A-Class articles, good articles and did you know articles. This may provide some guidance as to the scope of Wikipedia articles considered as involving Indian military history. Donner60 (talk) 04:22, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Tamzin (IMH)

(pinged) To me, the logical scope of "Indian military history" would be
  1. The military history of any entity, or vassal/proxy of an entity, based in
    1. the present-day Republic of India and/or
    2. territory that was at the time considered India
    and/or
  2. Any military activities by any other entity that took place in that region.
-- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (they|xe|🤷) 15:46, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@Koshuri Sultan: I think this answers the time question as well. But to be clear, no, I don't impute any time-based limit to this. Maybe hypothetically it wouldn't cover conflicts prior to the Indus Valley Civilisation, but honestly even there I'm not sure.
I also stopped to think about whether this covers actions by Indian-originating forces far removed from the region. I knew a woman who was the lone survivor of a Free French unit slaughtered by what she described as renegade British imperial gurkhas, but according to a historian I talked to were more likely soldiers of the Nazi Indian Legion. Should those fall under Indian military history? But then I thought, yes, they should, and Talk:Subhas Chandra Bose can speak for itself as to why. Ultimately, any aspect of Indian military history, whether it's from 10 years ago or a thousand years ago, whether it happened in Mumbai or Marseille, has the same tendency to be politicized by contemporary Indian political movements. -- Tamzin[cetacean needed] (they|xe|🤷) 17:30, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Rosguill

also (pinged), I'd mostly agree with Tamzin's description, although I would add that when considering that it is "broadly construed", this would also include any topic that is centrally relevant to the wars historically fought in the Indian subcontinent, in particular definition of borders and ethnic/national/religious/caste claims to land in the Indian subcontinent. signed, Rosguill talk 16:17, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I fully agree with Tamzin's further comments on scope, including ancient history and operations by Indian military groups outside of India. signed, Rosguill talk 17:52, 3 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Sohom Datta

While I nominally agree with Tamzin's statement and definition of "Indian military conflict", as person who has infrequently worked on the topic area of the Indian freedom struggle (and other areas), I feel like this net is waay to wide for a extended-confirmed sanctions by default. If Subas Chandra Bose is included, would almost any article documenting any of the various parts of the Indian freedom struggle/conflict be considered part of this restriction? -- Sohom (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Swatjester

I want to emphasize that it's vital for the scope to cover modern day (including current-events) Indian military history and the portions of related articles thereof. Since the 2025 India-Pakistan conflict there's been widespread nationalist edit-warring and propaganda pushing on articles relating to the military equipment involved in the conflict -- particularly the aircraft, missile, and air-defense systems involved (as these by convention usually have a section for "Operational History" documenting their usage). Additionally I want to reiterate that the scope needs to encompass military actions conducted in India even by non-South Asian actors. For instance, during the hunt for Bin Laden in the early 2000's, both the U.S. Delta Force and British Special Air Service conducted operations in Kashmir against a Pakistani militant group in which intelligence sharing was conducted with the Indian government while said Indian government issued public denials; references to this event should presumably be covered (both because of the intelligence sharing arrangement with the Indian military, and due to the geographic ___location being within the scope of coverage). As far as I can tell Tamzin's interpretation covers both these concerns but I wanted to raise my concerns if other interpretations prevail here.⇒SWATJester Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat! 23:58, 16 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should opine whether and how the Committee should clarify or amend the decision or provide additional information.

Indian military history: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Indian military history: Arbitrator views and discussion

    1. Only India or related to India.
    2. Yes, if India was involved it doesn't matter where the conflict took place.
    3. They can be accepted.
  • This is obviously just my view, but it seems fairly clear-cut. #1 does get at one of my concerns about the grand unified CTOP, though. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:54, 22 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
    I think Tamzin's description is pretty apt. Trying to narrow it down or draw explicit lines around it won't work with how broad the topic is. If someone is unsure if a particular subtopic, article, or piece of content is covered they can ask about it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 12:29, 5 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I have mixed feelings on what "Indian history" means for arbitration enforcement because we need to balance the need for the definition to be easily understandable against the historical reality of the term.
    In my opinion, we indicated in "Breadth of topic bans" that Indian history also includes history prior to the Partition. Just as how Chinese history spans the various dynasties prior to the PRC/ROC (even if it wasn't called China at that point) and how American history doesn't just begin in 1776, I think that Indian history covers the current republic as well as clear predecessor states like the British Raj and Mughal Empire, even if they go beyond the current republic's borders. The term "India" was used before the Partition as well: the Raj was commonly called "India" and the term was used for many years prior to the current republic's creation. Hopefully that also answers Koshuri Sultan's question as well and I otherwise agree with SFR regarding Toadspike's Q2 & Q3.
    Voorts: I don't think that there is a good place to cut off when history begins – aren't we all creating history now? – so would rather that we kept contemporary conflicts as well. If enforcing administrators wish to sanction people from (eg.) pre-Modi Indian military history instead of the entirety of Indian military history, they would have support in doing so. Sdrqaz (talk) 01:46, 25 July 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • I'd say Tamzin's definition could be used in a textbook. That's exactly what I would have said, in many more words. WormTT(talk) 08:23, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
  • What ScottishFinnishRadish and Worm That Turned/Tamzin said. ~ ToBeFree (talk) 13:58, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Amendment request: Venezuelan politics

Initiated by WMrapids at 04:33, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
Venezuelan politics arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. WP:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Venezuelan politics#WMrapids banned
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
Information about amendment request

Statement by WMrapids

 
     WMrapids's statement contains 301 words and complies with the 500-word limit.

After this time off, I want to return to my first passion on Wikipedia; providing images and information about local locations and places visited. This can be seen with my recent uploads on Commons (including my first quality images! [6][7]), which I wish to place on Wikipedia. I have no interest in Venezuelan topics or certain interactions, so please keep the two-way IBAN and topic ban in place to leave those problems in the past. Overall, I'm eager to collaborate with others on Wikipedia again and learn more along the way, like I have on Commons. Thank you for your consideration! --WMrapids (talk) 04:33, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Robert McClenon, apologies! Due to word counts, I kept things brief for ArbCom. My other account created for privacy (which I still recognize/recognized was created improperly) was blocked and no other account has been created. I'm fairly certain ArbCom wouldn't consider an appeal if my IP showed up elsewhere during this time.--WMrapids (talk) 19:58, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I'm committed to using only one account and have no desire to use another. Thanks to everyone involved for having empathy and respecting my privacy even though we like our answers and want to hold each other accountable. I wish I could provide more answers, but due to past incidents (including people at my door), I politely ask you to put yourself into my shoes. I'm human; an average person from Michigan who wants to help build a good encyclopedia. My behavior wasn't perfect, but my edits were genuine, my own and I hold no animosity towards anyone. I know asking for respect is a lot, but I'm more than just another user. I'm a person on the other side of the screen and I'd do anything within reason to protect others from experiencing some of the things I've faced just for my edits.--WMrapids (talk) 23:31, 21 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Robert McClenon

WMRapids was blocked for abusing multiple accounts, and was banned by ArbCom to recognize the CheckUser block. This request does not address the abuse of multiple accounts, which is an issue of trustworthiness. Robert McClenon (talk) 15:54, 6 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Simonm223 (Venezuela)

As WMRapids is willing to return with the topic ban and the iban in place and as they have accounted for the sock puppetry issue and have committed to not repeating that mistake I think we should support allowing them to return. Simonm223 (talk) 11:04, 8 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.

Venezuelan politics: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Venezuelan politics: Arbitrator views and discussion

Amendment request: Palestine-Israel articles 4

Initiated by Newslinger at 01:04, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Case or decision affected
Palestine-Israel articles 4 arbitration case (t) (ev / t) (w / t) (pd / t)
Clauses to which an amendment is requested
  1. Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4#Definition of the "area of conflict"
List of any users involved or directly affected, and confirmation that all are aware of the request
Confirmation that all parties are aware of the request
Information about amendment request

Statement by Newslinger

I recently encountered a user talk page discussion titled "Views on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and the Gaza war", in which Patternbuffered said, "I was going to just revert, but I'll give you a day or so to clean it up", in reference to article content related to the Arab–Israeli conflict. As Patternbuffered was not extended confirmed, the extended confirmed restriction (ECR) of WP:CT/A-I prohibited Patternbuffered from performing the described revert.

Per current practice (e.g. ScottishFinnishRadish's warning of Long-live-ALOPUS in another discussion for violating ECR by posting another user talk page comment), my understanding is that ECR also prohibited Patternbuffered from starting the user talk page discussion in the first place. However, Patternbuffered pointed out to me that the wording of the clause in question excludes "userspace" from the "area of conflict" without additional qualifiers. Long-live-ALOPUS also interpreted the clause as it was written.

I do not believe it is the intent of the userspace exception to allow non–extended confirmed users to openly discuss the Arab–Israeli conflict on other users' talk pages in ways that are prohibited in other namespaces and restricted on article talk pages. I ask the Arbitration Committee to amend the clause to limit the exception to the editor's own userspace, which better reflects existing practice. — Newslinger talk 01:04, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by Patternbuffered

Statement by ScottishFinnishRadish

Statement by Long-live-ALOPUS

Statement by Thryduulf

While at first glance the simple change seems unproblematic, there does need to be some allowance for posting on other users' talk pages. The first scenario that comes to mind is:

  • User:Example is not extended-confirmed. They make a good-faith edit to content related to the area of dispute on a page that is not ECP protected.
  • User:Foo reverts this edit on the grounds that Example is not extended-confirmed
  • User:Example posts on user talk:Foo seeking clarification (maybe they didn't understand jargon used in the summary)
  • User:Foo replies
  • User:Example posts a follow-up question (e.g. perhaps still not understanding, perhaps disagreeing that the content is related to the dispute)

As long as Example is not sealioning or otherwise acting in bad faith, we don't want to prohibit this sort of interaction yet a simple reading of the proposed language would do that. My first thought is a much-wordsmithed "this does not include discussion of actions taken regarding a user's own edits that takes place on the talk page of the user taking that action." While "discussion with the editor taking that action" is simpler, it would prohibit follow-up to a reply given by a talk-page stalker which I don't think would be desirable. Other things to consider are that good-faith, genuinely new editors are not guaranteed to know about pinging users to their own talk page, won't know how to determine whether some other editor is or is not extended-confirmed and if the queried actions relate to more than one editor (e.g. User:Foo reverted user:Example and user:Example2) it is better for all concerned for all discussion about it to happen on a single page. Thryduulf (talk) 01:35, 25 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Statement by {other-editor}

Other editors are free to make relevant comments on this request as necessary. Comments here should address why or why not the Committee should accept the amendment request or provide additional information.

Palestine-Israel articles 4: Clerk notes

This area is used for notes by the clerks (including clerk recusals).

Palestine-Israel articles 4: Arbitrator views and discussion

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