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Archived Lengthy Talk Page
This talk page has grown overlong and therefore been archived. You can find the archive page in the asppropriate side box. - -- Wizardry Dragon (Talk to Me) (Support Neutrality on Wikipedia) 21:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
- Archived a second time. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 14:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Has anyone who works on this actually read the friggin Comics?!?!
Smallville: Hometown of Superman
I want to add this link http://www.geocities.com/smallvillefan902 Its a very good web site. Its well researched and a better web site in my opinion than they official web site. Blacklisting this link is NOT what wiki is supposed to be about. Please research the site properly and then add it back!!!!!--Modelmotion 06:48, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
- It doesn't following Wiki's external links guideline. If any fansite is to be used, it should be 1 fansite and that fansite should add information that isn't going to already be found on Wikipedia. We have that site, it's [www.kryptonsite.com Kryptonsite]. We use them because the webmaster, Craig Burn, works alongside WB making Smallville Season Companion books, and other such things, and manages to get interviews with the cast and crew. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 12:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
Can you be more specific as to which part of the guidelines it does not meet? I find the site well organized and much more informative than any other Smallville TV site.--Modelmotion 00:54, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
- The fact that it's some personal guy/gal's webpage? It's not even a fansite so much as a fanpage. Any information there is covered here, and external links should not be websites that deliver the same information, just with a glossy cover. Under "Links to normally be avoided" that would be #1. Geocites is a website for people to make their own webpages, not actual websites. It's not an official site, and when you write about fiction, fansites should be limited. Kryptonsite, though a fansite, is actually connected to Smallville, as their webmaster works on the show's companion books, and since you can't just go about making these books without permission (copyright problems), it kind of gives him precendence as the "official fansite". Also, Wiki isn't a repository of links. Meaning, we can't just go throwing any ol' link out there because someone likes it. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 01:45, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I understand that wiki is not intended to be a depository for random fan links. However to describe the site in question as simply a fan page is totally inaccurate. It may be on geocities but if you explore the site you will find 48 pages filled with guides to various aspects of Smallville. This information is presented in an organised fashion and is clearly different from anything else on Smallville on the internet. I think this alone justifies the site as a valid external link for a Smallville wiki page.--Modelmotion 07:24, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
- It's a fan page. Webpages don't have to be restricted to just 1 page. By webpage I mean it shares it's webaddress with other users, the only distingquishing mark is the part that says "smallvillefan...". Are YOU the owner of this page? BIGNOLE (Contact me) 12:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
No I am not the owner of the site in question. Further I do not see how the URL is relevant to the content of a web site. Clearly the web site has a lot of well organized and relevant information. It seems to me that that is what should be considered.--Modelmotion 18:18, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
- What's on there, that's is relevant to this article, that isn't in the article or would not be in the article should it reach FA status? BIGNOLE (Contact me) 18:34, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
As I have pointed out several times, its the way that the information is organized that makes it a useful complement to wiki and hence should be included. If you doubt me, please check out the site yourself before simply deleting the link. If you can provide a valid reason for it not being included then please express it.--Modelmotion 21:08, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
- I think the problem with the site is that, while it is an honest endeavor to provide accurate and unbiased information to the reader, it is not quite achiveing that goal. I did go to the site, and looked at all the links and so forth, and found more than one misspelling/incorrect word usage (Impenitrability, which besides being misspelled isn't a word; a better word to use would have been invulnerability). As well, I did find some point-of-view language that is not neutral, and the episodes were not very inclusive. The images are quite likely not fair use, and could be pulled at any time. Lastly, it is a Geocities webpage, which means it is a person's sole effort to create a fansite. Kryptonsite is an effort that someone paid for the right to build a website, ensuring the content and diligence to provide accurate, timely and appropriate information. The Geocities site provides no such guarantee, implied or otherwise. For that reason, I don't think it can remain as a link. The article must stand the test of time, and those Geocities sites surviving that test are very few and far in between. I hope that explains matters more. Arcayne 22:33, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
According to wikipedia it is a word: Impenetrability --Modelmotion 03:16, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- That's more of physics jargon than actual word. What's recognized as english, and what are terminologies used by other fields of study don't always coincide. Hell, my personal Microsoft WORD believes it to be synonymous with "mysterious", not indestructable. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 03:20, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
There is no need to use foul language!--Modelmotion 03:32, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- I can't tell if you are being serious or not, because most people include some hint if they are joking. If you are serious, I'm curious as to what you thought was "foul language"? If you were joking, you gotta give a "lol" or a ";)" or something to let us know, it's only text on our ends. If you are referring to my "hell", then that isn't foul language. It's another way of saying, "on another side". Remember, Wikipedia isn't censored, and I wasn't making a personal attack. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 03:35, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
The use of the word "H___" was totally inappropriate. And, no, I am not laughing. This is a serious discussion about a site that I think has useful content.--Modelmotion 03:40, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- Okay, we are getting off track here. Modelmotion, I am sure that Bignole did not mean to disrupt your delicate sensibilities. However, if you are going to edit in the open environment presented by Wikipedia, you are going to have to develop a thicker skin. All of us have heard and/or used much, much worse. I was in the Marines, so I know I have. Learn to let it go.
- As for the 'inpenetrability' vs. 'invulnerability' issue; please take the time to read the definitions politely presented to you before arguing blindly onward. Even more importantly, take the time to read your own wikilinked definiton. If you had taken the time to read it, you would have seen - as any person without a desperate need for a thesaurus would - that the word doesn't fit Clark's abilities. Period.
- Now that we've dispensed with that particular issue, I think we are done with the website issue. If you are the author for the website, speak up now; you've certainly led me to think that you have a vested interest in having that particular link included. It isn't really that hard to do an IP trace for the website and you. This is the part where assuming good faith doesn't excuse poor behavior. Bignole has been extremely patient with you (much more so than a great many other editors would have been), so I think your very best course of action is to apologize and move on to something worth discussing. Sorry for the extra helping of harsh, but we all do this for free; arguing for arguments' sake is just a waste of time. I think we're done here.Arcayne 03:58, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
- Sorry if you were offended, but again, Wikipedia is not censored. I didn't say anything wrong. If you don't like the word, then you can choose to ignore it. It wasn't like I was cussing up a storm, and there was nothing "inappropriate" about my using "that word". It's a word, get over it. The only thing serious about this discussion is two other editors informing you that GeoCities is not an acceptable external link. We've told you why, and you're only reasoning is "I think it's informative". Well, everything on that site is stolen from either Kryptonsite, Devoted To Smallville, Smallville Wikia, or Wikipedia itself. There is nothing there that isn't either here, or on other site that is already linked here. Since Wikipedia is not a repository of links, there needs to be something special about this webpage for it to warrant inclusion as an external link. We can't just go including every webpage by Dick, Jane and Carol just because they make it look pretty and organize information from other sites. What if someone comes along and takes this "smallvillefan's" geocities page, and makes their own. They copy everything that is on his page, and since he doesn't own that stuff (seeing as he/she took it from other sites, most obviously the images), rewrites it to sound more professional, and changes the formatting, are we supposed to include their webpage as well. I mean, obviously they would have "an informative, well organized" page, just like this individual. All of their information will be just like what he's got, only better organized, and written. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 04:01, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Article assessment
Good job on the article - its well on the way to being ready for good or featured article status. I've assessed it on behalf of wikiproject television. I've rated it as B class as I feel it covers most of the required information but needs some cleanup.
The info about Aquaman pilot is too detailed for the lead and should be down with the "Chloe Chronicles" only as it never aired.
You've got links in the headers for the seasons - a no no according to the manual of style.
The characters section could easily be converted into true prose instead of a bulleted list.--Opark 77 23:48, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
- Taken care of the links in headers problem. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 00:37, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
- What do you mean "too details for the lead"? There's one sentence for it. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 02:30, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Season 4 episode, Commencement
I read that this episode took up a 90 minute time slot in the US. Was this episode really long, or was there a whole lot of ads (over 40 minutes of them) added in? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.165.83.3 (talk) 07:50, 1 April 2007 (UTC).
Help Us
Please help us find reliable sources for everything that has an "original research" tag next to it. Some tags are not dismissing the factual basis of the event (e.g. Terrence Stamp being Zod and Jor-El) but that it was the writer's intent to draw that allusion. We need sources that say the writers, creators, etc, intended for this to be an allusion to something else. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 18:42, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
- Allusions to the franchise
There are a number of allusions and themes which relate to the Superman franchise in many ways, outside of the obvious references to the Superman name, colors or costume.[1] One of the most obvious of these is that Clark is almost always seen wearing combinations of red, yellow and blue, an allusion of his costume to come.[2] In addition, Clark is frequently told by other characters he looks good in either blue or red.[original research?] Clark's surroundings maintain a similar theme; the Kent farm has objects which colors are either red, yellow or blue. For example, their house is yellow, the barn is red and the truck is blue.[original research?]
In addition to the Kent Farm, in seasons one through to four, Smallville High School represents many of these allusions as well.[original research?] The school mascot, which is a crow, wears a red cape, with a crest on its chest that has the letter S (for Smallville). Also, two of Superman's colors—red and yellow—are abundant in the school. As well as the references to the Superman character, the series makes numerous references to other Superman lore and media.[3] It should also be noted that the Superman films are referenced through the cast, as Annette O'Toole (who plays Clark's mother) played the role of Lana Lang in Superman III in 1983 and Terence Stamp (who voices Clark's biological father, Jor-El) played General Zod in both Superman and Superman II.[original research?]
GA review
Good work definitely. But I would like in-line episode citations for the plot section and the 'see also' section destroyed, with the Kryptonian crystals/Kryptonians as 'main articles' for that section and the timeline a 'see also' for the plot. Alientraveller 19:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
- Ok, I think I took care of everything. I tried not to bog down the plot section with 5 citations at the end of 1 sentence that happens to sum up an entire season arc. Do you think that we should use the 1 section plot that was suggested before, or keep it as 6 subsections? BIGNOLE (Contact me) 22:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Well, it is good, and keep improving as you wish. Alientraveller 12:36, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
Smallville pages
I recntly tried to create a special page under the name Lois Lane (Smallville) and was planning to do so with others as most of the characters are really different from the comics version but it was removed before I really had the time to turn it into something good. I think it could be worth it since Chloe and Lionel have their own pages. Any thoughts? Siemgi
- Chloe and Lionel have their own page because they are not part of the comic universe. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 23:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
- I know that. But I still find it weird that Chloe has complete page about the Smallville version and Clark has much less, while he is the main character.Siemgi
- I can't help you. Chloe and Lionel should really be regulated to a list of smallville characters page, because neither is notable enough to have their own article. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 12:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Merger
There is a proposed merger going on at Smallville season 1. It's in regards to the episode articles. Though I'd let everyone know here. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 01:08, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Casting vs Cast and Characters
I'm thinking that it may be good to merge these two sections into one. Because it seems redundant to have a section on casting and then later have a section that vaguely talks about their characters in an "out-of-universe" way, but doesn't go into detail. Anyone? BIGNOLE (Contact me) 21:03, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Seasonly villians
I have noticed that a new villian has been used as the primary as the primary antaginous since season 4. In season four it was Jason Teague and the witch versions of Lana, Lois, and Cloe, in season 5 it was Braniac, and in season 6 it was Lex and the phantoms. Does anyone else think this deserves inclusion?
- Jason wasn't a villain till the last couple episodes. Either way, it's all personal observation. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 02:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I missed most of the fourth season, and ya personal observation has no place in this article.
Smallville episodes sections
Has yet to be Fix can anyone fix it Supermike
- The Wikia links are not going back into the headers. I told you, it is against the guidelines BIGNOLE (Contact me) 21:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
well that stupid reason not to have them, so what the point of even going to the page now. mean its not Right just because a few can't read it the rest are screw mean why not just get rid of the Whole thing. Nobody going to go back there now if they can't read about the episode so I now guess I will get rid of the episode section since well It's Pointless. Supermike
- Ok, seriously, what part of "THE LINKS ARE AT THE BOTTOM OF THE PAGE" is that difficult? There's a nice little section that reads "External links", in that section is a link to Smallville Wikia. If you are on this page, it goes to the general Smallville Wikia page. If you are on Season 4's page, then it goes to Smallville Season 4 Wikia. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 13:42, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
O have to agree with Supermike here How come The other show Get Hyperlinks in their episodes sections but smallville doesn't. and these so call "External Links" led No where So Im with supermike Put the Hyperlink episodes back close down the site.
- Unfortunately, it's hard to communicate with "two" people that don't register. I can't tell if you are the same person or not. Regardless, it's the way things are, and if you want to point me to other pages that have them I'll be glad to inform them of the proper way to link. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 17:39, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Or you can accepted the fact that your wrong [{Supermike\supermike}]
- Unlikely, since Wikipedia guidelines are in my favor. So, you can deal with it, go to the external links and then navigate Wikia yourself, or don't use them at all. I don't really care. What I care about is the articles themselves and them meeting the requirements of Wikipedia. You don't have too much to worry about because all of the season pages are about to be completely reformatted anyway. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 22:11, 3 June 2007 (UTC)
Well Then what the point of even have a smallville Wikipedia page why can't we just click on the page link and read Travil etc etc But I guess It would make people want to come to the site These is Bull
- If you want trivia, go to IMDb.com, because this is an encyclopedia. And sign in, or are you not signing in because your account has almost been blocked for vandalizing pages. I saw your talk page Supermike. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 01:06, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
Don't attack supermike and So I was right you are trying to take Wikipedia off the internet why us are you destroying these profiles
Look all I'm asking is for the pages to go back to Normal Supermike
- I'm not even going to carry on this discussion. It is going no where. Read Wikipedia:Manual of Style (headings)#Linking. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 02:24, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
So Im screw out of reading about my favorite show because some stupid moron hate Hyper links Supermike
- No, you're screwed out of reading about your favorite episodes because you are too lazy to type in the name of your episode over on Smallville Wikia. What I find funny is that it's only costing you 1 extra step to get where you want to go, but you'd rather bitch and moan because the manual of style governing headers is different than what you would like them to be. I'm sorry, but get over it. I thought they were useful too, but what's "useful" isn't always what's best. There's a link at the bottom of every season page, which goes to every Smallville Wikia season page. Hell, I just visited "Season 2"'s Wikia page, and you don't even have to type anything in. Once you are on the season 2 page you can simply scroll down the entire list of season 2 episodes. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 21:26, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I did type in the name of the episode over on Smallville Wikia it brought me Nothing look everyone like the hyperlink in the episode title ALL of the only show have them from Superman TAS to Scrubs Supermike
- What shows? You keep saying that but have yet to provide me with a link. I told you that if you click the season you want (e.g. Smallville (season 1)#External links click this <--) there is a list of every episode on that page. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 11:50, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
[[1]] click this <--) supermike
- Please don't replace my edits. Those goes to individual episode articles here, not on Wikia. The only articles we have on here are for the first two seasons, which is about to change anyway. The other links that were there from season 3 - 6, were all going to Wikia, not to Wikipedia. As for ones that are here, most are not notable... please read Wikipedia talk:Television episodes and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Television/Episodes for a current discussion on why those aren't going to last very long. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 20:01, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
So wait you can bitch about me replace your edit but I can't reads about individual episode so is Wikipedia a communism site? supermike
- First, hold your tongue, you're becoming very uncivil. Second, it wasn't like you corrected a typo, you replaced something I said. Third, I just gave you two more links to read. How about actually reading them. Last, I'm not continuing this conversation any longer. It's been explained to you clearly and you just don't want to accept it. I'm sorry, but I have better things to do than debate the same tireless thing over and over again. BTW, please don't manually sign your name, because you're doing it all wrong. There is a "User:" in from of "Supermike". Thus it should read "User:Supermike". Just hit the tilde key (~) 4 times and call it a day, which you might want to sign in when you do because otherwise we'll just get the IP address you happen to be using today. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 03:37, 9 June 2007 (UTC)
wow have to make personal attacks because you know Im right and your wrong supermike
External links
We should tidy up the External links section, it seems to be a bit long right and some stuff probably is not needed. What is everyone elses view? Davey4 06:08, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
- I'd cut the "Review" one, because it isn't a professional critic. The interview with Kane should be on the season 6 page. Don't need a link to here the Remy Zero song. Smallville Dedication...don't know what that is, that could probably go. Probably don't need Smallville DVD, i think most people know how to use Amazon, or their local entertainment store. The "Smallville tie-ins" is actually just a big list of Superman related books, and doesn't look like a very professional site. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 11:48, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
they are not hurting anyone so i say keep them mean what the point of putting stuff up if you're just gonna take it back down supermike
Wikipedia is not a repository of links. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 23:01, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Citations for use
Some citations...for use (yeah, header says that). Bignole 18:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
- Jess Battis (Winter 2006). "The Kryptonite closet: Silence and queer secrecy in Smallville". Jump Cut: A Review of Contemporary Media. Retrieved 2007-06-20.
{{cite news}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - Mostly about the series, some bits about specific episodes. Might be useful.
- Jess Battis (Winter 2006). "Smallville and New Media mythmaking". Jump Cut: A Review of Contemporary Media. Retrieved 2007-06-20.
{{cite news}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - more from this guy.
Character (Smallville)
We really need pages for the characters. The articles are mostly on the comic book characters. Smallville has been on for 6 seasons, with the 7th comming up. I feel they should have an article of their plot on smallville. Eg. Clark Kent (Smallville). Lois needs one the most as she only has a short paragraph on Lois Lane and on Lois Lane (Smallville) which has been deleted she had alot of info. I know this has been posted before. Im sure we can have "Main Article: Lois Lane (Smallville)" in the short sections on the overall characters page. Russell (Talk) 16:54, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
- Lois Lane shouldn't have her own article for Smallville. Not unless there is sufficient out-of-universe information to warrant a split from the main article. The same goes for everyone else. Character article are not biographies, as the characters are fictional. Look at Superman or Jabba the Hutt. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 16:57, 5 July 2007 (UTC)
Weird Redirect.
Why does "Warrior Angel" redirect toward here? Superman's never been depicted as such?
- Because I don't think Warrior Angel is a real comic, only something part of the Smallville universe. BIGNOLE (Contact me) 11:06, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
- ^ "Smallville: Every Story Has A Beginning..." ESHAB. Retrieved 2006-12-22.
- ^ "Review: the fourth season kicks off with Crusade". BBC. 25 January, 2005. Retrieved 2006-12-22.
{{cite web}}: Check date values in:|date=(help) - ^ "Smallville". chirographum.com. October 18, 2001. Retrieved 2006-12-22.