Wikipedia talk:Current surveys
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How is this different from the List of ongoing votes? Most of those are polls as well. Angela. 13:46, Jan 4, 2004 (UTC)
- I didn't know that page existed. It is very wrong to call these 'votes', however. I'll fix this. --mav 00:39, 7 Jan 2004 (UTC)
- Merged and moved. --mav
Somehow I missed the "section edit autofill of edit summary" poll over the last 3(?) days. And, I just discovered the new feature and I don't think I really like it -- I'm not sure how useful the info is as an edit summary. However, I'm not arguing that we revisit the decision. I usually check the polls every couple of days, but I guess I missed a day over the weekend.
But here are my suggestions:
- First, if we have guidelines about how long polls should last I have missed them, but 3 days for a change that affects so many users seems short -- especially as some of us don't check the current polls every day. If there is a policy, can we post those on Wikipedia:Current polls, and if not, let's create some and post them there.
- Second, I think it would help to have the date/time that the poll closes listed between the link to the poll and the description of the poll.
- Third, I think it would be easier to follow if we divided the rather lengthy list of polls into sections -- perhaps "Administrative," "Software," "Policies," "Preferences," etc.
So what do people think?
BCorr¤Брайен 23:02, Mar 22, 2004 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. Somebody with more time than me should format the existing entries (adding ? where the info - such as start and end times - is not known). --mav 05:24, 23 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- OK -- I've added sections and put into old polls anything thats been inactive for a month or more but isn't "officially" closed. I'll pledge to stop in weekly and move inactive polls down, but I hope that people who close polls will come back here and check on them. Please add new polls under the relevant subheading, and note the starting date of the poll and the date the poll will be closed, if applicable.
Old polls
Is there any point keeping this list of old polls. I just removed some where the links were so out of date, they didn't even take you to a poll, but I can't see the need for the others either. It isn't very maintainable, and I don't think it's very valuable. If there are some that could be used as good examples of sample polls, then those could be mentioned, but for closed polls on issues no longer being discussed, I think they should be removed. Angela. 19:44, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)
I cleaned out the old polls as suggested. At this point, I have another proposal to make. I think the page should be renamed Wikipedia:Current surveys. I think too many people still have the idea that these polls are like elections and the results are binding, even though the page has long said this is not true. I think renaming the page would make it much clearer that these are attempts to get a survey of community opinion. --Michael Snow 19:45, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television)
Netoholic keeps removing the link to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (television) I consider this to be disruptive behaviour. If I revert the page once more I will be accused of breaking the 3 revert rule, but there is a poll going on on that page which requires publicity. Can someone please re-instate it. Mintguy (T) 00:30, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- There is no defined start or end, and the poll is still being written as we speak. -- Netoholic @ 00:31, 2004 Sep 14 (UTC)
Voting has already started. So you can assume that the start time predates the time now. The page says to show end date if appropriate. I have decided not to impose an end date myself but leave that up for discussion. If you would like to suggest an end date then go ahead. In any case this page is to publicise polls. Do you not think that publicising the poll (whether it has officially started or not) is a good idea? Or do you just want to censor this page, or are you intent to just revert everything that you don't agree with for the sake of it? Mintguy (T) 00:47, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Allowing voting to take place before the format is agreed upon is a recipe for trouble. -- Netoholic @ 03:18, 2004 Sep 14 (UTC)
Discussion moved from Village pump
Wikipedia has some polls that started months ago. The voting virtually stops at some point but is never formally closed and then, months later, someone comes across the page and adds a vote. Like Wikipedia talk:Fame and importance which started more than 7 months ago, received about 70 votes back then, with an inconclusive outcome. Now, it is still getting one or two more votes a month.
Is that right? Polls should have a certain end date. Could we have all polls formally closed after at most a month, with a clear message put on the page? Andris 23:13, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)
- Depends on the type of poll. I don't see a problem with leaving a poll like the fame and importance one open, as it is one of those global issues that doesn't really change in its fundamental nature. Remember that polls are essentially meaningless anyway. They're just rough indicators of how users feel on an issue. anthony (see warning) 16:45, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- Typically, you can say that the poll is useless if not the interpretation of the outcome is decided before the poll starts. [[User:Sverdrup|User:Sverdrup]] 19:05, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
End moved discussion
Ballot-Stuffing
I was involved in a vote where everyone on both sides encourage friends to join the vote by registering just for voting. It was ugly. I am not proud of it. I suggest that only people registered before a vote, can vote on an issue. If such a policy came up for vote, I would encourage all of my friends to register, after the vote began, just to vote "Yes" on not letting people vote on issues who were not registered before the pole began. ;-)
P.S.
So that who I am will not influence your judgment, I logged out before writing this. If you feel that who I am truly is germane, the logs will reveal that this IP was used by a user who logged out just before posting this and then logged back in on the same IP after posting this.
Anonymous Coward
- Wouldn't this be impossible to check and/or eat up far too much server power? [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 05:05, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
- A simple check of the user registration timestamp against the time the vote was posted is just integer subtraction, but the wiki style of putting an issue to vote by editing the page means that a vote is just text on a page, which the software doesn't treat as special. It probably wouldn't be hard to make votes special and allow this kind of checking if someone wanted that. -- Zwilson 16:55, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Wow, I whole heartedly agree with that... a requirement of Wikipedia voting should be registration prior to the start of the vote. It sounds like a really good idea to me. (The sock puppets and the people who suddenly show up out of nowhere only for the vote are a serious problem). Since I am also a coward, I will only sign with an x. 05:18, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- In previous cases where this has happened (the naming policy poll comes to mind), the votes of brand-new users were moved to their own section and (more or less) ignored as obvious ballot stuffing. →Raul654 05:49, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
- That's some previous cases, Raul: sometimes it's done that way and sometimes it isn't. A notable case of ballot-stuffing on VfD in August also comes to mind, where the admin counted new-minted voters just the same as established users (apparently so; when his count was challenged he didn't choose to comment on this aspect of it) and declared himself forced to keep the article. I think your example and mine, placed side by side, illustrate completely unacceptable variation in sysop vote counting practice, and that's why we need a specific rule. Bishonen 02:37, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- P. S., adding figures: there was a lot of interest and strong feelings in this VfD case. By my count 50 pre-existing users voted: 15 to Keep and 35 to Delete. Don't remember exactly how many new-created accounts there were can't face spending any more time in the tangle of that record but those voted overwhelmingly to Keep. Bishonen 08:27, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
OK, right. But here's what I like about it: when the brand-new voters show up, all that can currently be said to them is "the admins are not amused", where as with a rule in place, one can actually say "your vote is in violation of policy... now go away", (or something with a little more WikiLove). func(talk) 19:49, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- No, you can do what we did before - make a section called ballot stuffing (or something with more wikilove) and move their votes there (don't delete them). →Raul654 19:52, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
- Agreed. Better to have an unequivocal policy than leave the determination to whichever sysop counts the votes. That's too open to mistakes, or abuse. -- orthogonal 20:03, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Occasionally comments from new or unregistered users can be very useful (as was the case recently on Peter Weibel). It's their votes that don't count. -- Jmabel 22:01, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
I kind of like the Anonymous Coward's recommendation: Your account must have been created before the deliberation began to count. That won't touch the long standing sock puppets, of course. Geogre 00:45, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I've always interpreted Wikipedia:Deletion_guidelines_for_administrators#Rough_consensus to mean the same thing as this suggestion, but it would certainly be nice to have it stated more formally somewhere, and to be clear that it applies to all polls that are closed to IPs. Not only should voters have created their account before the poll began, but they should have made some good edits with that account as well. (I don't know that we want to get into the minutiae of defining "some", but I'm okay with it being a small number.) —Triskaideka 22:04, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I have to reiterate it: IP's and nonce registrations cannot be counted in a vote. When I said that the "exist before opening of debate" won't stop sock-puppets, I meant that some regular Wikipedians have more than one account. The people who have done this know how hard it is for them to be caught. In fact, it's very difficult to catch them, and I'm a little tired of our pretending that it isn't. To me, the multiple accounts per Wikipedian is a really wretched phenomenon. "Wikipedia, where all animals are equal, and some are more equal than others." I'm going to look at the article Bishonen links to and see if it should have been deleted or not. I understand when people get afraid to step into really hot debates, but consensus must be our only rule. Consensus of users, that is, and not consensus of the interested. Geogre 00:01, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
Standing and nomination
The above thread about ballot-stuffing got me thinking:
For September tenth, on redirects for deletion, an anonymous contributer listed two of three of the redirects for deletion that day. ¿Should people with no standing to vote, be allowed to nominate? It seems like a trouble-making troll with a floating IP could really wreck havoc by randomly nominating all sorts of things to all sorts of things.
I must confess that I participate in the discussion for the redirect male genital mutilation. I feel that either both male genital mutilation and female genital mutilation or neither both male genital mutilation and female genital mutilation and either both should stay or leave. I believe that both should stay. Keeping one while deleting the other is sexist. In other words, I believe that, now, after disclosing my involvement, I should abstain from the debate about anonymous contributers nominating things to things.
Ŭalabio 05:48, 2004 Sep 17 (UTC)
- I believe it's been the longstanding policy on the VFD to ignore anon votes. I don't think RFD should be any different in that respect. →Raul654 05:50, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
- Since I am a partisan, I shall not debate but merely clarify:
An Anonymous Contributer Nominated Several Of The Redirects For Deletion. Someone with no standing to vote started a vote.
Ŭalabio 06:05, 2004 Sep 17 (UTC)
Some time ago I raised exactly this issue on Wikipedia talk:Votes for deletion, that discussion is now archived but the rough consensus was that anons have every right to list on VfD, but not to vote. I was the dissenting voice, IMO if you can't vote you shouldn't list either. I guess we'd want the same policy on RfD, etc.. It sounds like there might be more to say on this. In the interests of not reinventing the wheel, should I try to find the original discussion? Andrewa 11:29, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
I don't think I've ever heard the term "standing [to vote]" being used in the way, but I see if there's consensus, there's consensus, regardless of whether or not the nominator was an anon. I could see the appropriateness of deleting a nomination made by an anon, if no one agrees with it, but once an eligible voter agrees that voter could be considered the nominator if you really care about such issues. anthony (see warning) 12:38, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
See my comment in previous section re: Peter Weibel. -- Jmabel 22:02, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
The right to propose something and the right to vote on it aren't necessarily coupled. The only question to ask is whether dissallowing anons list pages on VfD and RfD brings more good or harm. Now, anybody who wants to disrupt VfD and RfD could get around a rule like that it just by register a user name. OTOH, throwing policy at well meaning newbies and telling them that their attempts at contribution are worthless might lose us some potentially good editors. I see no justification to prevent anons from listing pages on VfD and RfD. Zocky 02:29, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
- See Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Category:Current surveys. Gangleri | Th | T 21:41, 2005 Mar 19 (UTC)
Redundant?
Lovely page - but isn't this mostly redundant with WP:RFC and/or WP:W? If people agree, should we merge or something? Radiant_* 15:22, May 18, 2005 (UTC)
- Definitely not. RFC is a request for comments, not votes. W seems to be a little-used page now hijacked by the Wikipedia:Schools for deletion listings. Admittedly, all these pages are hard to find — someone (preferably someone without a pet project to promote) needs to work on a top-level organization of the Wikipedia namespace. —Wahoofive (talk) 17:02, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
- I'd support merging this with WP:W. Steve block 18:55, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)