Does anyone want to have a go at writing up some of the current theories summarised in a recent edition of the BBC's Horizon programme? A transcript is available online here [1]
Another page in their site even links to this very article! Timrollpickering 23:13, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)
alleged/suspected/hypothesized/proposed Troy
In the light of the findings since 1996, this article is far too cautious about identifying archaeological with homeric Troy. Of course the "identity" is not complete, not proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and the controversy should be noted. Since 1996, however, a strong majority of scholars identify (W)ilion and Wilusha, and for very good reasons. I will try to add sections concerning these recent developments. dab 18:42, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Opening doesn't make much sense
The opening of the article, "Troy (...) is not a legendary city, scene of the Trojan war" doesn't make much sense. Is that supposed to say "is a legendary city"? ~~
The Real Location of Troy
There is a very intersting theory that has its roots in geography and archeology, and puts Troy much closer to Greece... Check it out at: http://www.troya.com.mx/. The book was published in Croatian, and it is by no means a work of an amateur, R. Salinas Price is a scholar educated in the United States, more on his study on Homer at: http://www.homer.com.mx/index.html
- Yugoslav Troy? Well, feel free to add it as an intriguing 'dissenting voice.' No "the real ___location"-style statements in the article, though, please. dab (ᛏ) 09:08, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Feel free to not mention that garbage at all in the article, also. Decius 07:43, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Patton 117 reporting in, p[lease feel free to see the discussion below about how it was in England. go to the link before you bash it please.
Wrong Category
Ancient Troy was not in any way an ancient "Greek" city, so I've rearranged the category. Decius 05:59, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
- well, everybody speaks Greek in Homer. Plus, there is some evidence that there may have been a Greek upper-class that had imposed itself on the Luwian population, in Wilusa. But it's difficult to classify anything as "Greek" in that time anyway, there were only "Achaean" and "Danaans" etc. dab (ᛏ) 10:07, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Patton 117 here, Homer's story was about a celtic civil war, and was translated into greek so that the people he was telling the story to the greeks
Troy in England
Well it was written by the greeks from Homer's original versiopn which was translated from his native celtic tounge to greek
Troy in England
Has anyone ever read Iman Wilkins book where troy once stood, in it he describes why Troy would have been a Celtic City, and how the Aecheans, which means seamen, where warriors from central europe who banded together to capture the british celts tin mines so that the mainland europena Celts could make bronze at a cheaper price. the following link will lead you to the site http://www.troy-in-england.co.uk/
- a typical case of pseudohistory. dab (ᛏ) 16:37, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
If you read it, the invaders are described as travelling over a wine dark sea called Oceanus. The Greeks would have called it the Ægean sea, which is a deep blue color as compared to the Northern Atlantic which is often described as being wine dark
Also, Achilles is noted as watching the sun rise over the sea and his barracks. Which means that an Asian landing site is out of the question which would put the shores on the west.
Achean is also a greek version of a CELTIC word that means Water Men There are seven rivers flowing across the Troad. there is also an eighth river called the Temese, which was the name for the Thames untill the 850's AD. the turkish plain has two rivers.
I would like to take the claim for creating this discussion, as i was not supposed to be working on this at the time due to the fact that i am taking a computer Apps class at this time. Patton 117
- again, this is so far out on the lunatic fringe that it's not worth refuting. At most, if you must, insert a single sentence saying somebody came up with the idea. For anything more, create a subarticle dedicated to the theory. dab (ᛏ) 07:19, 19 July 2005 (UTC)
You remind me of the lunatic conservaties who say that Harry Potter is evil, and have never even read it. I, Patton 117, am a conservative who reads the books by the way.
- I have read it, and it's not remotely believable. James 23:15, July 19, 2005 (UTC)
Why not, i have read both the Iliad and Iman Wilkins book, and find it meshes
- Mainly because it's based on questionable etymologies. James 04:31, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
So how do you explain the fact that Achiles was able to watch the sun rise over both the ocean and the soldiers barracks. Also, I forgot to mention this, but greeks for centuries back have been of average height, average, complexion, with brown hair and brown eyes. Agamemnon is blond, as is Achiles. Traits that resemble the Celts more than the Greeks.
- The Iliad is an oral poem, and as such inconsitencies and errors crept in over the several hundred years during which it was composed. Also, the person who "wrote" it was likely not there, so they would have no real idea on which side of Troy the camp was. Also, there's no concrete proof about what Greeks looked like over the centuries. Furthermore, there's nothing to suggest that blonde in the Iliad is the same thing as blonde today. James 05:09, July 20, 2005 (UTC)
what? I'm not saying anything is "evil". I am saying it is stupid. Nobody claims Harry Potter is a factual report. If you claim that this England business is fiction then no problem. The arguments are crap, man. Take a good look at the map of the Troas. See the bay? Is that a north-to-south coast facing west? I thought so. dab (ᛏ) 06:43, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
Image:Homeric greece.png Have a look at that map. The poem, in spite of being oral, contains exact knowledge of Greece and Anatolia. Now take a list at Trojan_War#Armies_on_the_Trojan_side. These are all historical peoples of Anatolia. What were the Phrygians doing in England? The Carians? The Lycians? etc.?? You may as well claim that the Greeks were really Eskimos invading the Aztecs. The theory is too kooky even to waste breath on it, sorry. Read some serious books about Troy. dab (ᛏ) 06:54, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
