Talk:Society for Creative Anachronism
I can't make an informed judgment on either the opinion of Olympic fencers about SCA fencers or the overall quality of SCA fencing as a whole, but at any rate I thought POV discussion about it was inappropriate, so I deleted it as best I could.
I have created a page for historical reenactment and living history (same page for now, though the could be split in the future). They could use some more content. Especially on
- history of historical reenactment
- reenactment groups
- living history groups
- differences between living history, reenactment, recreation, drama
- references to PBS content: Frontier House, 1940s House, ...
- What is it the participants were doing? (Livining history, I think)
- What is it that PBS was doing? (Creating historical entertainment, I think)
Happy editing! Jeff 21:15 Nov 13, 2002 (UTC)
Can someone supply some numbers for SCA? Number of chapters worldwide? In the U.S.? (I'm assuming the majority of the membership is U.S., but perhaps not.) Ditto for total number of persons involved and their distribution? ---Michael K. Smith 21:16, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
These numbers are hard to come by, because there's no membership requirement for participation in SCA events. SCA.org says "over 30,000 members," but I have no idea where this number comes from (and if they actually mean paid members, there are probably several active non-members for each offical member). ---Jeffhos 21:18, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)
http://www.sca.org/docs/scafaq.pdf lists membership as just shy of 30,000 members worldwide. Jake 00:29, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Urban Legends and "Freaking the Mundanes" Lore
There are a number of amusing urban legends surrounding the SCA, from the "SCA vs the Hell's Angels" to "Butterfly and 'Blood for Odin!'" to "The Burglars and the Broadsword ('Broke into the wrong goddam rec room, din't ya?')" to "'Are you in the SCA?' 'No, I'm in a play.'" It'd be great to collect them somwhere. Would it be appropriate to add a section to this article? Brendano
The SCA as a tribe
To 68.42.167.77 — I think it's probably a bit misleading to call the SCA a tribe. It's certainly true that, in a very general sense, the SCA tends to lean more to the left than society as a whole, and that SCAdians tend to feel a lot of comraderie with each other, but it's far from a homogeneous group. I've met everyone from born-again Christians to pagans & atheists in the SCA, and people with a wide range of views on different issues. It might perhaps be valid to call some of the households in the SCA tribes, but I think it's a mischaracterization of the Society as a whole. ---Jeffhos 16:16, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
68.42.167.77 — To which "guidelines" are you referring? Jeffhos 05:39, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Anno Societas
What is "anno societas" supposed to say, exactly? From the way it is used I assume it should be "anno societatis" (or societate maybe)...in 39 years, has no one ever noticed this? (It's a creative use of the language, I guess :)) Adam Bishop 20:15, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I've actually seen it spelled (and pronounced) both as "anno societas" and "anno societatis" (and Google searches for both will turn up plenty of SCA pages). But I looked it up in the Known World Handbook, and it, in fact, "Anno Societatis". My mistake. Jeffhos 05:39, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
- Ah, okay...I found a bunch of results for societas on Google, but I didn't think to look up the proper spelling. Sorry :) Adam Bishop 07:27, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Recent anon edits
All the edits by the anon user at 12.221.102.20 seem to be ripping the Society. Even if some of these things are true, it seems they could be phrased better, less POV. -- Logotu 17:31, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
The first word in the organization's name is "Society" - it's a collection of people, for better and worse. Some folks have not had happy experiences.Brendano 21:28, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
"world's largest non-militant army"
But is it true? I'd like to see some documentation, myself. "SCA Heavy Weapons Fighters also practice many-on-many engagements called melees or wars, and make up the world's largest non-militant army, according to an unofficial FBI source." Very interesting, if true. And, at the risk of a stupid question, what is a "non-militant army?"
--cuiusquemodi 00:52, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)
I've been a member since 1980, and back then the story was that the FBI investigated the SCA in the late 60's or early 70's. The final report (which I have never laid eyes on) reportedly describes the organization as "a bunch of harmless monarchists." Brendano 21:27, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
- I've tried to find the source of this. It's a neat-sounding "fact," but is sounds anecdotal/apocryphal, and I couldn't find anything substantial. If anyone can find a verifiable reference source, please add link to the source. Otherwise, this should be deleted, or altered so it is not reported as fact. The closest thing I've been able to find is a somewhat anecdotal account, [[1]]. The account, supposedly from a member of the SCA, mentions he asked for documentation from the FBI under the Freedom of Information Act in the 80's. The upshot of the somewhat underwhelming response was a few papers that assessed "that the SCA was a nonprofit educational association." Durty Willy
- As far as "non-militant," it probably refers to the fact that this particular "military" force does not intentionally kill or injure combatants, but is organized like an army. This could be better described as "paramilitant,", used for any group that is organized like an army; combat is not relevant, it's how it's organized that's important to this definition. Boy Scouts of America, Hitler Youth, and US Civil Air Patrol are all non-combat paramilitary organizations, for example. Private security forces and mercenary groups, revolutionary and guerilla forces, and the fictional Fight Club are examples of combatant paramilitary. Durty Willy 02:54, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Reputation?
From my experience (well, roughly a year) as a medieval combat reenactor in Germany and especially in South England, the SCA is generally regarded as a joke, probably due to the rule system and the fantasy flair.
In Germany OTOH the American SCA rules seem to have been the basis for the somewhat flawed Codex Belli ruleset (a very beaurocratic system relying on safety "licenses" which ironically tends to result in very aritificial and dangerous maneuvers because the legal hit areas were restricted to the torso and upper extremities for safety reasons) which is held high as the quasi "standard" by a fraction of the German combat reenactors -- once again resulting in a negative view of the SCA by those who oppose Codex Belli.
Is this a local reputation or a general one? --Ashmodai 12:37, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
- For the most part, re-enactors look down on the SCA who looks down on the Ren Faire and so on ad nausium. The main thing is that each organization does things differently and for different reasons. The biases you saw are norally directed at the SCA due to the fact it tends to be qutie laid back in areas they believe need to emphasised. That is perhaps what makes the SCA what it is thought, for most members are using the Society as an escape and don't see why they have to push thier standards up like that. The SCA has its faults, and yes the combat rules and styles have created some unrealistic fighting styles, but the SCA operates in its own world and could care less what many outside say. And most of us try not to look down at the other similar groups. Donovan Ravenhull 14:40, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
- Aye. So it's really less about reenactment and more about creative extrapolation?
- As I said I'm doing medieval combat reenactment by a ruleset pretty similar to the semi-contact ruleset of the Early Medieval Alliance, which is a larger group (incidentally there don't seem to be "good" large groups at all, just larger and smaller ones) in Southern England. That is, we have a stronger focus on safe fun fighting which looks authentic from a few meters away.
- We try to look and act somewhat authentic (no smoking on the battlefield, no truely offensive insults -- especially too modern ones that are not directly derived from Monty Python sketches), but we don't try to emulate historical languages or restrict the materials our clothes and weapons are made of to those that have been around at the time we are reenacting (unlike many true reenactment groups in Germany). But the "looks authentic from a distance" rule rules (heh) out stuff like plastic weapons and the like, which seem to be okay for the SCA (although we DO restrict training with children under 16 to LARP swords for legal reasons, but they don't participate in battles, displays or similar events for the same reasons and the fact they can't fight with LARP swords at such an event).
- I suppose it's because the SCA's rules are so loose that they are frequently thrown into the same bin of disrespect as LARPers. The odd combat rules may add to that. --Ashmodai 19:31, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
- I'm still learning wiki, apologies if I do this wrong *g*
- (ashmodai said) "Aye. So it's really less about reenactment and more about creative extrapolation?"
- Yeah, thats fair. I've heard it described as a "medievally themed social club", which about sums it up. You get everything from folks who like to dress up in funny clothes and drink alot, to weekend warriors, some folks are leading scholars in their fields, and some just wanna have fun. The SCA is very open like that, something for everybody. The SCA gets bagged on alot by folks that like to look down on us... I don't know why, I don't think we're trying to pretend to be anything that we're not (in general, anyway *g*).
- (ashmodai said)"... rules (heh) out stuff like plastic weapons and the like ..."
- I can't think of a single allowable "plastic" weapon in SCA combat. The armored folks use rattan and sometimes fiberglass or shaped rubber(for polarms), the rapier folks use commercially available sword simulators made of steel (see www.darkwoodarmory.com, for one example). Some folks will use plastic "armor" as protective gear, but they're encouraged to hide it. *g* Rapier42 29 June 2005 02:38 (UTC)
Youth Combat and Minimun Ages
When we are editing the sections on Youth Combat, lets make sure we don't set in stone information that only pertains to one region. Currently the rules for Youth Combat do vary greatly from Kingdom to Kingdom, and some blanket statements don't apply. For example, here in Meridies (where I've participated in organizing YC since nearly the very beginning) we don't use golf tubes, and do allow experimental use of shaved ratan in place of pvc pipes (still padded, but the ratan of course doesn't break with those nasty sharp edges like pvc, but is harder to find).
Also, I haven't had a chance to check, but what is the BoD's rules on minimun age for participation in full adult combat? I know in Meridies, we require everyone to be 18 or over, but are flirting with allowing some 16-17yo YC prodigies to participate. Donovan Ravenhull 29 June 2005 11:24 (UTC)
Number Consistency
In the 'Combat Events' section, it mentions wars can have more than 5,000 armored combatants. In the 'Wars' section, it drops down to 200+. In the 'Heavy Weapons' section, we jump back up to 1,500. It would be nice if someone could put more accurate numbers in here. Unfortunately, I don't have them, though I'm pretty sure that 5,000 combatants (or about half the people that show up) is a bit high for Pennsic (the only war I make it to). SKA Virgil or PerlKnitter 18:42, 11 August 2005 (UTC)
Out of context bits
I'm pulling material out if it doesn't fit where it is and dumping it here. Put it where you think it belongs if you want. TomCerul 15:16, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
- (In SCA jargon, this era is called "Period", although some insist that "Period" only legitimately refers to the millennium of A.D. 600–1600. According to the founding documents of the SCA, Inc., there is no back date; however, they do state "Middle Ages" in one place, and simply "pre-17th-Century" in another. As a result, there is a large contingent of Roman Legionaries, and smaller groups of such cultures as Ptolemaic Egyptians.)
textile arts
Could we get a write up on the amazing stuff you crazy spinners, weavers, embroiderers and tailors do? I'm renaming the current textile arts to 'Garb/Costume' because it has no mention of the study and effort that some people contribute. I'm imagining something more like "Some members raise sheep, card and spin wool thread to weave fabric" ie something focused on the Activity of the textile arts. TomCerul 15:44, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
textile arts
Could we get a write up on the amazing stuff you crazy spinners, weavers, embroiderers and tailors do? I'm renaming the current textile arts to 'Garb/Costume' because it has no mention of the study and effort that some people contribute. I'm imagining something more like "Some members raise sheep, card and spin wool thread to weave fabric" ie something focused on the Activity of the textile arts. TomCerul 15:50, 9 September 2005 (UTC)