Talk:Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol
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Link spam
ItalianVisits.com, is just link spam, a single unfinished page with 3 small uncaptioned photos and 4 links, the purpose of which is to draw people to "I.V. Tours".
The person who added ItalianVisits has systematically gone thru the 20 regions on Wikipedia to add that site to each, without any regard for improving Wikipedia, no attempt even at adding the official site for the various regions. This is therefore a link spam campaign, and should probably be considered vandalism. I've warned that user, and if need be (there have already been some reverts for other regional pages) will put them on the Vandalism in Progress page. If you have this page on your watchlist, please help in maintaining the quality of the links! Bill 12:49, 21 July 2005 (UTC)
Rebuttal to Bill Thayer
Bill, I am the "someone" who added links to ItalianVisits.com on the various Italian Regional sites - and I don't think I was commiting "link spam" or engaged in vandalism when I did so. ItalianVisits.com is a serious endeavour being undertaken by my daughter, Jesse Andrews, who for the past 2 years has been living in Praia A Mare, in the northwest region of Calabria. My other daughter, Arianna, is attending university at the University for Foreigners in Perugia, and also contributes to the ItalianVisits website when she can.
If you look at the section on Calabria, you will see how much work and effort has been put into cataloguing towns and villages that are virtually unknown to English-speaking people, whether they are travelers or tourists, or people who have a curiousity about the area. You will note, I hope, the abundance of wonderful photographs that compliment the text, and present our viewers with images that otherwise would not be available. Incidentally, you should also note the link to Wikipedia resources whereever and whenever there is material on Wikidpedia about a region, town or other locale. We are as committed to Wikipedia as you are.
Jesse has created a vessel into which more information is being added every day. I just spent 15 days in Umbria, for instance, and added pages for Perugia, Assisi, Spello, Bevagna, Gubbio and the Regional Park at Colfiorito. Other contributors, like Katherine Lavallee, have added information about other towns in Tuscany. Such contributions are solicited eagerly so that we can fatten the content on the site.
ItalianVisits.com is hardly a come-on for selling tour packages, although we are trying to attract people to "unknown" parts of Italy, and in so doing, get some business to those out of the way places for local restauranteurs, hoteliers, and others in the travel business. If you are aware of what is going on in Italy now, you will understand that the economy is depressed, owing largely to various difficulties it has and is facing as it tries to integrate with the EU, and as it attempts to compete in a global economy. So, having information for travelers can not be the sine qua non of "link spam". If you look at all the external links listed in the Umbria section of Wikipedia, a number of them are active promoters of travel to the Region. Even in the various regional sections of Italy where you posted identical comments to the comments you made here there are links to sites that promote and facilitate travel. Should all of these be removed? And if so, by whom and under what (hopefully) well-defined policy?
You can coin or use phrases like "link spam", and "cyber vandalism", or other terms of denigration, but I think you, and others who "worry" about Wikipedia, should be careful not to sit on Wikipedia with a holier than thou attitude, deleting other people's contributions, unless a more thorough investigation is done into the content, and sometimes into the motives and objectives of their creators. Many people spend a lot of time, money and energy trying to do good without much reward beyond the satisfactions it provides. This effort to "do good" is manifest on your site Bill, at least, so far as I can see, and I commend you for it.
I'm a bit more than a little chagrined about what you have done Bill, and about how you have characterized ItalianVisits, but I hope we can discuss this if you think I am making an untenable argument in favour of allowing us to post links to the IV website, without fear of having them removed by the over-zealous.
Regards Vian Andrews Vancouver, BC July 28, 2005
Two new links (well - three)
I suppose that adding the same external link to all entries for Italy could have been misinterpreted as spam... I think two new links to the local tourism boards could help... For Trentino www.trentino.to
For South Tyrol/Alto adige two other links (one with the name of the region in Italian, the other in German) They point to the same site, but it is a way not to trigger other discussions www.suedtirol.comwww.alto-adige.com --Adriano 22:21, 5 October 2005 (UTC)
Trentino-Alto Adige moved to Trentino-South Tyrol
The rename of Trentino-Alto Adige to Trentino-South Tyrol has ever been discussed before?
The usage of "South Tyrol" is extremely limited in Italy and mainly by the autonomist parties of the region.
Alto Adige is commonly used by other international references, like
http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/Italy/Regions/Trentino-Alto_Adige/
Pietro 13:36, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
- The article used to be at Trentino-South Tyrol. Isn't the English language name "South Tyrol"? -- User:Docu
- The meaning of "Alto Adige" is "to the north of the Adige river", that is the Italian view of the area; "South Tyrol" is the German view. As an Italian Region, Alto Adige should be used. Pietro 13:24, 5 November 2005 (UTC)
- The name "Trentino-South Tyrol" doesn't exist. The correct denomination is "Trentino-Alto Adige", like italian administration said. The "Provincia autonoma di Bolzano" can be denominated "Alto Adige" or "Süd-Tirol" --Ilario 08:52, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Although "Trentino-South Tyrol" does not exist as a name in the Italian or German language, it obviously does exist in English (at least multiple sources refer to the region as T-South Tyrol). Similarily, although the term "Austria" does not exist in German (just "Österreich" does), it is the proper lemma of the article. In my point of view the name most commonly used in English should be used as lemma. Gugganij 13:03, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- The name "Trentino-South Tyrol" doesn't exist. The correct denomination is "Trentino-Alto Adige", like italian administration said. The "Provincia autonoma di Bolzano" can be denominated "Alto Adige" or "Süd-Tirol" --Ilario 08:52, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Requested move
The name "Trentino-South Tyrol" doesn't exists in italian administration. The name correct is "Trentino-Alto Adige". Süd-Tyrol is the old denomination of region before the 1919. Only the "Provincia autonoma di Bolzano" can be denominated "Süd-Tirol" because it is bilingual. --Ilario 09:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- As far as I know not just the northern part but the region as a whole is bilingual. At least that seems to be clear to me when reading articles 99 to 102 of the constitutional law determining the special status of the region Trentino-South Tyrol [1] (pdf!, in Italian and German). The President's decree, confirming the unified text of the constitutional law, refers to "Trentino-Alto Adige" and "Trentino-Südtirol" respectively. The official homepage of the region is entirely bilingual [2], using both T-AA and T-St. Thus, it seems to me that both versions (T-St and T-AA) are official. Anyway, in my point of view just the common usage in English seems to be relevant, when determining the lemma. Since the term "Trentino-Alto Adige" gives more google hits than "Trentino-South Tyrol" I tend to support the move. Gugganij 12:36, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one sentence explanation, then sign your vote with ~~~~
- Support --Ilario 09:11, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Support -- AnyFile 10:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Support -- GhePeU 10:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Support -- Pietro 11:35, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Support - we should use the official denominations, and eventually name the alternatives in the article text. Alfio 11:53, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Conditional Support - At least according to google (restricted to english language websites) "T-AA" gives more hits thant "T-St". Thus, that might indicate that "T-AA" is more commonly used in English. What do English native speakers think? Gugganij 12:36, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Support -- F. Cosoleto 12:58, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Oppose The Italian provinces and regions are all named in English, see Tuscany, Sicily, and so forth. After all this is an english-language Wikipedia, not Italian. Gryffindor 16:15, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Sicily. --F. Cosoleto 17:26, 6 November 2005 (UTC).
- Support ok, this is an english-language Wikipedia, but Trentino-South Tyrol is'nt English, it's esperanto! --Nick1915 17:14, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
- Support - Hellisp 18:09, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
Discussion about South Tyrol
Wikipedia uses the english name for naming italian provinces and not the italian ones, such as Tuscany, Sicily, Lombardy, etc... otherwise you would have to rename those into Toscana, Sicilia, etc.. I have checked the website of the Government of South Tyrol, they use the name "Trentino-South Tyrol". [3], [4]. And if you are going to go with "official" name, Art. 116 of the Constitution of the Republic of Italy states that the official name of the province is "Trentino-Alto Adige/Südtirol" You can check the website of the Constitutional Court of Italy/La Corte costituzionale della Republica Italiana link in English and for Italian-speaking users Costituzione della Repubblica Art. 116.
In order to avoid a muddle up of German and Italian, best to keep it in English. cheers/grazie/danke/merci... Gryffindor 19:25, 6 November 2005 (UTC)