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Talk:Ajax (programming)/Archive 1

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This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Mindmatrix (talk | contribs) at 23:44, 19 November 2005 (→Not a web directory). The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

Latest comment: 19 years ago by Mindmatrix in topic Not a web directory
Discussion of Edits
Please take care when editing this article. It has become a hot-spot for user in-fighting. Please discuss your changes here first before making them and be respectful of those making the edits. Thanks in advance for your cooperation.

Is latency a pro or con?

Latest comment: 19 years ago4 comments4 people in discussion

I'm confused here. In "Pros and cons", it is said that the main advantage is the speed at which an AJAX application runs and responds to user interaction; due to the client-side scripting taking place which reduces the amount of per-interaction network traffic. Later on in "Criticism", "critics focus on the technical issues AJAX raises, beginning with network latency" (with this link to someone's blog that goes on about how AJAX is no good because of latency). Wha...art??? -- Jin 23:06, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

That post talks about usability problems with Ajax. I have updated the critisicm section. --Sleepyhead 13:20, 20 August 2005 (UTC)
In terms of latency itself, it's a con -- as in, the fact that things that used to be instant are now dependent on the speed of the network might be confusing to users. (The advantage that's discussed in the article isn't related to latency per se, but rather, to the slowness of a browser needing to render an entire page when updating a small section of the page would do just fine.) The latency issue DID highlight a confusing part of this article, though, namely that the distinction between what is a "con" (in the pro/con sense) and what is a "criticism" is a little muddy. Thus, I combined the two sections into "Pros, cons, and criticism", and then clarified the latency issue a bit. Jason 16:38, 21 August 2005 (UTC)
Even now I think the criticism paragraph on latency is a bit on the negative side. I've been doing some research, and it seems that network latency is just something you need to consider carefully during AJAX development. If make a proper interaction and technical design, web applications will be more responsive. If you make mistakes, usability and responsiveness will suffer. Is it OK if I try a small rewrite of the latency paragraph? Jep 18:35, 4 September 2005 (UTC)
Have at it! (That being said, there's not a lot in the paragraph to lend a ton of credence to the argument, but rather, it exists just to give a nod to the argument.) Jason t [[Special:Contributions/Delfuego|c

Search Engine Accessibility

The entire Search Engine Accessibility section seems to be an ad for Backbase, something I realized after I removed the spammy Backbase link that ended the section. I'm deleting the entire section for now, as the entire rest of the Ajax article makes the point the section is making, and doesn't do so as a pretense for laying the foundation of a "problem" that's solved by the good folks at Backbase. Jason t c 00:58, August 30, 2005 (UTC)

Jason, I think Search Engine Accessibility is a very relevant topic for AJAX applications. I have added the link to provide more indepth information on the topic (the article is not a plug, but a contribution to a generic AJAX problem). If you know otehr articles about this topic as well, please include them. Let's be open, and cooperative instead of just deleting contributions. If you like you can contact me at info at backbase dot com. August 31, Jouk.

I'm happy to be open and cooperative, but Wikipedia isn't a manual, it's an encyclopedia. In other words, saying that Ajax provides challenges for search engine accessibility is appropriate, but providing detailed information about how to overcome the challenge is better left for a computer manual (perhaps the Wikibooks contribution that's linked at the bottom of the entry). Jason t c 12:53, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

OK, I just read over the addition about search engine accessibility, and it really seems like it's trying to be a manual. It would be just as easy to flesh out the pros/cons section so that the line that talks about bookmarking problems extends this to be a search-engine problem as well (since they're the same problem); it doesn't feel like WP's the place to go into this much detail on proposed solutions, though. Jason t c 13:51, August 31, 2005 (UTC)

The "Search Engine / Deeplinking" section makes absolutely no sense in the context of the rest of this article. It is not a general piece of relevant information about Ajax. At best, it's a tip for Ajax developers (which doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article); at worst, it's a self-serving advertisement from an unscrupulous company, which surely qualifies as graffiti. This section should most definitely be deleted (though I'm not doing so at this time). --IQpierce, 16:52 (Central Standard Time), November 3, 2005

AJAX vs. Ajax

Noting the global change to the former, I think the general concensus from both the archived discussion here and useage elsewhere is that it should be the latter. Ajax, not AJAX.

  • Correct; the archived discussion is here, and the change to Mr. Garrett's original spelling/capitalization of "Ajax" was supported without dissent. I've changed the article back to reflect this. Jason t c 19:18, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

xForms & Ajax

As xForms, an XML derivative of sorts, and Ajax "connect" it would seem useful to acknowledge that fact on the Ajax page. I am not competent to do that, but others who agree might want to undertake it. Be my guest. frankatca Nov. 18, 2005, 2:40 EST.

Examples of Ajax applications

Latest comment: 19 years ago3 comments2 people in discussion

When I look at the example links in the article, what I'm wanting to see are Ajax apps in action. The links were all mixed together with lots of pay-to-use, required sign-in sites at the top. I've rearranged them according to the following priorities:

  • 1st: Free, no sign-in.
  • 2nd: Free, sign-in required.
  • 3rd: Pay, but no sign-in for live demo.
  • 4th: Pay, sign-in required.

- Gamol


The "www.digg.com" link in the examples section: exactly how is this site showcasing Ajax? At a glance, it doesn't look like it's using any Ajax techniques at all. If it is, we should probably mention what it's doing in the link description. -Gamol

Good idea. Digg's using AJAX in its user moderation system. I'll edit the link description. -Anderiv
To see that in use, you have to be logged in. I moved the link to the "free but sign-up required" section. -Gamol
Seems like sockpuppets to me. No evidence of Ajax. Clearly linkspam. --Sleepyhead 11:08, 24 September 2005 (UTC)
It _is_ using ajax. Personally, I don't care if the digg link stays on this page or not, but please, check the facts before assuming anything. Check the javascript sources of the website if you're still skeptical. Anderiv 04:33, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
I think singling out Digg over the handful of other more-blatantly-spammy links is a bit unfair. But I think Sleepyhead has an important point. The reason for the Free to use and Sign-up required sections was to filter and contain the linkspam. Personally, I'd really like the links to simply show off Ajax techniques discussed in the article without any kind of signin. But this article was flagged as a "hot-spot for user in-fighting" so I've been reluctant to boldly prune the spammy links (and I'm thinking of others—not Digg). -Gamol

Archived Discussions

Latest comment: 20 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

The following sections of this page have been archived:

Supported Browsers section

Latest comment: 19 years ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Um...

"Mozilla Firefox (and derived browsers)" "Netscape"

Mozilla = Netscape = Mozilla Firefox

They may be burying the original Mozilla browser in the dirt, but the corpse is still warm.

  • Mozilla 1.7.12 (actual browser that you geeks get Firefox from)
  • Netscape 7.x (Netscape labeled Mozilla 1.7.x)
  • Mozilla Firefox 1.x (browser only version of Mozilla)

Learn your browsers people!


== What is this "Rangarajan" browser AJAX supports?

I have never heard of this browser, and it seems Google hasn't either.

Ajax?

These browsers to not support "AJAX", they support some form of XMLHttpRequest, this really needs to be fixed. AJAX is simply a (poor) marketing term for something that has existed for a very long time.

AJAX has become the de-facto term for the technology, as it's far easier to say, type, etc. You're just going to have to learn to deal with that fact. — ceejayoz talk .com File:Australia flag large.png 19:08, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Not a web directory

Latest comment: 19 years ago8 comments3 people in discussion

I've found that a few tech articles seem to have a rapidly-expanding list of links that provide no further information on the topic of the article. This is one of them. Let's keep in mind that this is an encyclopedia, not a web directory. Links to external sites should complement the information in the article.

I know this will upset a few people, but I'm going to delete all external links that don't have primary relevance to the article. If someone wants to revert, that's fine, but I'd like to hear an explanation why those links should be included. Mindmatrix 01:48, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Aside: I've also nominated List of websites using Ajax for deletion. I realize that people have put effort into organizing those links, but I simply don't think this stuff belongs in WP. At any rate, if you want it kept, just vote on the AfD page. No big deal. Mindmatrix 02:15, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I seem to be the only one that feels the links are pointless. Oh well. I would like to note, however, that the main portion of the article is just over two pages (in my browser), whereas the links take up five full pages. Most of them are useless, and do nothing to explain AJAX. Mindmatrix 20:34, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

I say delete them. Too many WP pages are full of this sort of crap. Alf Boggis [[User_talk:Alf_Boggis|(talk)]] 10:29, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

Well, we have two people who want the links deleted, and nobody that has requested to keep them. I will delete most of the links within 24 hours, specifically, those that fail to meet Wikipedia's external link guidelines. Mindmatrix 17:15, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

I've deleted the links, since nobody has requested to keep them in the ten days since I made my initial comment. I've kept several links, deleted many of them, and commented out a few. Could someone please parse the commented links, and keep those that are of high relevance to the article. Note that I visited each and every link I deleted to inspect its contents - I didn't blindly delete the list. Mindmatrix 17:58, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
No offense, but your choices in deletion are rather... bizzare. For example, you left script.aculo.us, which isn't AJAX, but took out Prototype, which is AJAX and which script.aculo.us requires. — ceejayoz talk .com File:Australia flag large.png 18:55, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
Oops. I had meant to comment out script.aculo.us; as for Prototype, I've had problems loading that site at various times, so I just deleted it. Thanks for checking the other links too. Mindmatrix 23:44, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Wikipedia "ajax" search leads to an entry that says "Useless"

searching for "ajax" from the wikipedia front page leads to an entry that just says "Useless". I think just yesterday it lead to a disambiguation page, which was nice: this new entry is odd, seems like a prank (unless ajax really is useless, which doesn't seem to be the case).

Searching for "AJAX" goes to the correct page.

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