Architecture
I think that this image is POV. So what if they built another church? Nobody is forcing the Hungarians to change from Catholicism to Orthodoxy... bogdan 15:25, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Hi Bogdan, Building a Romanian monument next to a Hungarian historical site can be considered to be the romanianisation of the Transylvanian landscape. What do you think? Would you suggest a different text?
- Hi.
- I agree that it's not a nice thing they have done, but this article is about the linguistic/ethnic assimilation, not about nasty things Romanians do to Hungarians in Transylvania... bogdan 15:49, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
This may also be means of assimilation, or at least to hide the results of it, this is the intention of the builders, isn't it? KIDB
- Probably the intention of the builders is simply "Keeping up with the Joneses": 'the Hungarians have a church here and we don't'. :-)
- Anyway, this is not the policy of the Romanian state, but of the local Romanian community and/or Orthodox Church in Transylvania. The church is most likely funded by private donations. bogdan 16:16, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
Yes, you may be right, if Romanianization is a defined to be a government action, this photo should be included in the description of the Romanian Orthodox Church. Who defined Romanianization to be a government action? Are you sure this expression can't refer to non-governmental activities of Romanians trying to eleiminate the proofs of Hungarian existence in Transylvania?
- I don't see how they're trying to eliminate the proofs of Hungarian existance as long as the Hungarian monuments still stand and the Hungarians still live in Transylvania. bogdan 17:09, 18 November 2005 (UTC)
- I think this argument is pointless! Orthodoxism does not equal Romanian nationality! This article is called Romanianization not Orthodoxization. Many Romanians are atheists, or members of non-Orthodox churches. Many Hungarians are Orthodox. The Orthodox Church is not the national church of Romania. Therefore, all the construction of the church is doing is perhaps saying that the Orthodox Church is trying to convert members of the Catholic Church to Orthodoxism. It's got absolutely nothing to do with nationality and ethnicity. We have to look at it this way - there is no such thing as a "Romanian church" and a "Hungarian church". There are only religious denominations. Ronline 10:28, 19 November 2005 (UTC)
- That's your opinion, and may be legally correct, but many people do believe that the Orthodox Church is somehow the national church of Romania. I agree that the main function of a church is to be a place of worship, but churches (and other religious buildings and monuments) often serve as historic and cultural, and political landmarks (just like statues, plaques, streetnames etc). I mean, look at Alba Iulia: the first thing the Romanian government did after 1920 there was to erect a huge Orthodox cathedral next to the Catholic one, with a somewhat higher tower.:) Do you seriously believe this had no symbolic meaning? Nationalism and religion are often entangled, unfortunately. In many cases, the intention of church-builders is no doubt good; but in many other cases, they seem to be primarily interested in artificially changing the cultural landscape of Transylvania. That said, I also believe that this picture is not really suitable for this article: it illustrates only one aspect (and probably not the most important) of Romanianization.--Tamas 00:20, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
- You can find similar examples to Gyulafehérvár/Alba Iulia in very many places in Transylvania. Eg. in Marosvásárhely/Targu Mures the town center is completely dominated by a huge Romanian church built in the 1920s. In that time period Romanians were a relatively small minority in the town. Of course, this building could not have been "erected" without the active support of the government. --KIDB 07:58, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
- That's your opinion, and may be legally correct, but many people do believe that the Orthodox Church is somehow the national church of Romania. I agree that the main function of a church is to be a place of worship, but churches (and other religious buildings and monuments) often serve as historic and cultural, and political landmarks (just like statues, plaques, streetnames etc). I mean, look at Alba Iulia: the first thing the Romanian government did after 1920 there was to erect a huge Orthodox cathedral next to the Catholic one, with a somewhat higher tower.:) Do you seriously believe this had no symbolic meaning? Nationalism and religion are often entangled, unfortunately. In many cases, the intention of church-builders is no doubt good; but in many other cases, they seem to be primarily interested in artificially changing the cultural landscape of Transylvania. That said, I also believe that this picture is not really suitable for this article: it illustrates only one aspect (and probably not the most important) of Romanianization.--Tamas 00:20, 22 November 2005 (UTC)
I do not really want to argue, the picture speaks for itself. By the way, Bogdan, a photo can not be a POW, only the interpretation of the photo. The interpretation is: SOME ethnic Romanians (whatever their religion is) do not respect and have not respected the historical heritage of middle-age Transylvania, rather they would like to hide it. This is one aspect of the Romanianization of Transylvania and goes parallel with other actions, like assimilating of the Saxonian and Hungarian minorities. KIDB
Târgu Mureş
Am I correct that Târgu Mureş was the capital of the Hungarian Autonomous Province? This article alludes to "the capital city of the former Hungarian Autonomous Province" without naming it. -- Jmabel | Talk
- Yes. KIDB