Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections January 2006/Candidate statements/Jpgordon
Ask away...
Question from SlimVirgin
Hi Jp, this is a question about trolls and other kinds of bad-faith editors. We have all dealt with certain types of editors, where going through the full process of an arbcom case feels like a terrible waste of time and energy, because even a glance at their edits shows they're not making good contributions to the encyclopedia and are causing trouble. However, they may not be bad enough for an admin to give them a long or indefinite block for disruption. They inhabit the twilight zone of what Carbonite has called the semi-troll.
What's your view on how the arbcom should position itself with regard to these users? On the one hand, we all want to see some form of due process. On the other, the arbcom isn't about giving every dog its day, but about getting the trains to run on time, as someone on the mailing list said. My own position is that the arbcom should have zero tolerance of trolls and semi-trolls, and I feel we all know them when we see them, but I can see that some people would find this too harsh a view. What's your position? SlimVirgin (talk) 17:37, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
- Good question. I don't think arbcom is the right place for a zero-tolerance approach; administrators and other editors should, however, be supported in their lack of tolerance for trollery. Arbcom has to be flexible; certainly, keeping the trains running on time is the top priority, but keeping the trains running on time means having a good respect for the train crews. Wikipedia is not therapy; we don't have any particular responsibility here to provide emotional support for troubled adolescents who wish to express their disdain for authority by wasting the time and energy of the huge mass of encyclopedists here. What Arbcom should be for primarily is to arbitrate disputes between well-intentioned editors who are having trouble reconciling their differences with each other. Assuming good faith requires us to assume that each editor, until proven otherwise, is working to better Wikipedia. But as one particularly annoying well-intentioned but utterly wrongheaded user wrote recently, WP:AGF is a rebuttable assumption. It's also the case that good faith isn't sufficient; an editor might be editing in good faith but be blinded by political views or have emotional problems that make their good faith work to the detriment of Wikipedia. It's these subtleties that Arbcom has to be most careful about. I'm far less likely to label people "trolls" than some other editors; I think, for example, that both Rex-with-all-the-numbers and Zephram Stark truly believed they were fighting the good fight; they just could not understand that their methods and their rhetoric was totally discrediting and drowning out any positive contributions they might otherwise be making.
- So, to make a long story endless, I think "trollery" shouldn't be an issue for Arbcom; I'd just as soon see the term kept out of Arbcom discussions at all. It's not a helpful label. "Disruptive asshole" should suffice. (Oh, I think I'm not supposed to say that.) --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 18:40, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
- Good answer. Thank you. ;-) SlimVirgin (talk) 18:48, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
Question from Marsden
You seem to have thrown your hat into the ring a week after the discussion page warned that anyone who wished to be considered for ArbCom should list himself "immediately." Were you aware that the "race" had essentially been declared closed before you entered yourself into it? Has the "race" been re-openned without an announcement? Has some special consideration been made for your candidacy, and if this is the case, do you know why it was made? Marsden 23:04, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
- Fair question. I didn't see anything that said that it was closed. I saw suggestions that it might be closed "soon". If I was incorrect -- if it was, indeed, closed -- I will of course withdraw my candidacy. In fact, I only put my hat into the ring after I noticed that someone else had done the same thing the same day. So, to my knowledge, the "race" has not been re-opened (since, to my knowledge, it was not closed); to my knowledge, no special consideration was made for my candidacy. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 03:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for your response, JP. Do you think that your comment at the administrator's incidents noticeboard about suggesting "that other editors do anatomically impossible acts" the day before you announced your candidacy for the Arbitration Committee demonstrated a level of good judgement and objectivity suitable for membership on the Committee? Marsden 04:41, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- In that particular case, very much so. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 05:06, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Thank you for answering the question directly, JP. Another candidate might not have been so willing to be accountable for his past behavior. Marsden 05:57, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Question from BDell555
Could you provide an example of someone "editing in good faith but blinded by political views" such that he or she should be indefinitely blocked? Would somone who is known to be associated with an organization like stormfront.org be an example? How about someone associated with the Muslim Brotherhood or, alternatively, a contemporary equivalent of the Stern gang? Would you revert an edit that sources a publication by a controversial organization like ihr.org even if it could be proven that the document cited was 100% accurate and/or endorsed as fully accurate by another, uncontroversial organization? If so, which other organizations would you consider to be in need of the same treatment? Would you deny, without further inquiry into the document's claims, arguments, or methodology, the possibility that any document or publication by such an organization could be possibly be accurate?Bdell555 07:17, 6 December 2005 (UTC)
- No, I won't provide such an example; that would imply pre-judgement should I become an arbitrator and should any such person be brought before the panel. At any rate, people shouldn't get blocked because of their views; actions are what matters. The obvious example is User:Amalekite, whose associations were irrelevant -- but posting a list of Wikipedia Jews on a Nazi website could not be construed as anything less than intimidation. As far as ihr.org is concerned, that's easy; ihr.org is dedicated to the propagation and perpetuation of falsehood, and thus is not a valid encyclopedic source except as an example of such falsehood. Any organization dedicated solely to holocaust denial would be handicapped by the same antagonism toward reality, and would be similarly useless as a source. --jpgordon∇∆∇∆ 16:47, 6 December 2005 (UTC)