Talk:Transitional fossil/GA1
GA Review
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Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 20:10, 28 March 2012 (UTC)
Criteria
A good article is—
- Well-written:
- (a) the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct; and
- (b) it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.[1]
- Verifiable with no original research:
- (a) it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline;
- (b) reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose);[2] and
- (c) it contains no original research.
- Broad in its coverage:
- (a) it addresses the main aspects of the topic;[3] and
- (b) it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
- Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
- Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute. [4]
- Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio: [5]
- (a) media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content; and
- (b) media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.[6]
Review
- Well-written:
- Verifiable with no original research:
- Broad in its coverage:
- Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
- Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
- Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
| Criteria | Notes | Result |
|---|---|---|
| (a) (prose) | Writing is clear and direct. No sign of copyright issues. |  Pass
|
| (b) (MoS) | Lead ok. Layout ok. No peacock or weasel language. No embedded lists. | Pass
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| Criteria | Notes | Result |
|---|---|---|
| (a) (references) | i) Footnotes: appropriate.
ii) References: Seems a short list; what are we missing? At least, some books e.g. Haeckel, Lovejoy should move from footnotes. Perhaps Gould also. iii) External links: Perhaps too many whale sites; needs rebalancing. |
Pass
|
| (b) (citations to reliable sources) | Please see Discussion below. 'Citation needed' and 'Page needed' tags have been added to article. |  On hold
|
| (c) (original research) | Article is properly cited. | Pass
|
| Criteria | Notes | Result |
|---|---|---|
| (a) (major aspects) | The key points are covered. The range of examples is suitably wide. Traditional and modern views are explained. | Pass
|
| (b) (focused) | Not sure the Runcaria section really gets across its point. A diagram (cp Runcaria 'seed') comparing it with a modern seed would help. |  Neutral
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| Notes | Result |
|---|---|
| Article covers the subject evenly and neutrally. | Pass
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| Notes | Result |
|---|---|
| Quite intense talk, editing in 2012 with GOCE. Some reversion but no editwarring. Some (perhaps creationist) IP minor edits reverted. Edits in last month all minor except addition of example (A. afarensis). | Pass
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| Criteria | Notes | Result |
|---|---|---|
| (a) (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales) | All images are from Commons, with (c) tags. | Pass
|
| (b) (appropriate use with suitable captions) | a) Representing A. afarensis as a skull when text is all about bipedalism and angle of femur is unhelpful if not inadequate; a photograph or diagram that shows the hip and femur, perhaps with a (walking) reconstruction.  Done
b) An image of Runcaria appears necessary - it will be less familiar to readers than Australopithecus or Archaeopteryx, and the points made are quite technical (anemophilous); suggest a diagram, ideally comparing Runcaria with a modern seed. Depending on the image(s), the section text may need enhancement also. c) It might be helpful to include a historic reconstruction image of Archaeopteryx in the 'History of transitional fossils' section - Commons has some - to show the impact of the 1861 find. In particular an image to show 'reptile with feathers' (ideally an early/Victorian reconstruction) would make the point clearly. |
On hold
|
Result
| Result | Notes |
|---|---|
| On hold |
Review is complete but for two items: some citations needed, and some work on the Runcaria example. These are on hold |
Discussion
Please add any related discussion here.
Goodness gracious, they really did change up the GA page format! I should do this a bit more often.
I would say in general, you want to have at least one source per paragraph at the GA level. It's good practice: You really can't have too few citations. In particular, I would like to see more citations for the "Transitions in phylognetic nomenclature" and the Australopithecus sections; they seem to be the sparsest sections. If a citation covers more than one sentence, just put it at the end of the paragraph, and that should be fine. I've given several sections a quick copyedit for some grammatical and spelling mistakes, although I feel that the article as a whole could use a bit more fine polishing on the prose. It seems to hit all the spots content-wise though, and the images check out. bibliomaniac15 05:05, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
- I agree, and have done another pass this morning. --Stfg (talk) 10:57, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
- A few "'Citation needed" tags have been added. What needs to be sourced is self evident in most cases, but there's a couple of points which are not entirely clear:
- After On the Origin of Species, the idea of "lower animals" representing earlier stages in evolution lingered, as demonstrated in Ernst Haeckel's figure of the human pedigree. This sentence has two pieces of information: The lingering view of "lower animals", and that it can be seen in Haeckels work. There is a figure from Haeckel that illustrate this point, but it's not a source per se. Ideas?
- Haeckel published on the subject himself. The idea of the "Great chain of being" is much older, before people thought of evolution (you'll find some sources there... including Lovejoy's book of that name, I read it at uni.) and more on the web under that heading.Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
- At the time it was hailed by many as the "missing link", helping set the term as primarily used for human fossils, though it is sometimes used for other intermediates, like Archaeopteryx. Again, there's two pieces of information: 1) "Missing links" is primarily used for the animal.human transition, and 2) it is also sometimes used for other transitionals. Which one of them is it that needs a source? Petter Bøckman (talk) 09:58, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
- Could the ideal answer be "both"? Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
- It could indeed :-) Now, that was that bit of sourcing squared away. It's going to be tough finding some decent sources for the cladistics section though. Petter Bøckman (talk) 18:44, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
- Could the ideal answer be "both"? Chiswick Chap (talk) 16:24, 29 March 2012 (UTC)
- A few "'Citation needed" tags have been added. What needs to be sourced is self evident in most cases, but there's a couple of points which are not entirely clear:
Contents There's a lot of good content in the article, but it is (to my mind) not presented in an order that make the article flow naturally. This has been bugging me for some time, I'll take a stab at rearranging it. If mu copyedits is not to peoples liking, feel free to revert my edits, but if so, please give a reason for doing so! Petter Bøckman (talk) 18:52, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- It seems rather strange timing, Petter. What have you in mind? --Stfg (talk) 19:27, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- First off, we need a definition-section, which should be followed by the "science" bits (Limitations of the fossil record, Transitions in phylogenetic nomenclature, Transitional versus ancestral). After that should come the history-section, and the article should round off with the examples. Where the examples overlap with the text in the earlier, the examples should be dealt with in the earlier sections. Per now, we have two sections on Archaeopteryx, which is neither here nor there. I have tried to get some interest in rearranging the the contents before, but with no response, so I decided to be bold and just do it. Seems it was unpopular though. Petter Bøckman (talk) 20:48, 30 March 2012 (UTC)
- (GA Reviewer) - I think there are merits on both sides of this discussion. For me, the main issue is actually not the text but the presentation of the examples, which was quite technical and not well served by the images: a T.S. micrograph for a discussion of the branching growth habit of Rhynia; a skull for a discussion of the inward-angled femur and bipedal locomotion of A. afarensis among others. Since the instructions to GA reviewers permit it, I have boldly gone ahead and attempted to fix this - please feel free to edit these as I do not wish to impose by reason of my temporary role.
- Petter's feeling on the undesirability of 2 sections on Archaeopteryx is noted, but perhaps the use of a historic reconstruction (as per the GA Review notes above) solves the problem - the article rightly looks at the fossil both with modern eyes and for its historic and popular impact.
- Are people happy with that? Chiswick Chap (talk) 07:25, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- The main action (with a bit of temperature to it) seems to be happening here: Talk:Transitional_fossil#Major_alterations_during_GA_review. Your input would be very welcome. Petter Bøckman (talk) 08:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- So I see. What is your view of my suggestion above? Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:02, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you, Chiswick Chap. If you have found a way that will satisfy the scientists and allow you to pass the GA, I will certainly be happy with it. --Stfg (talk) 09:47, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- The new images are better. What about this for an historic Archaeopteryx image? Petter Bøckman (talk) 09:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- Oh good. If you prefer the Heinrich Harder image, go right ahead and use it - the text may need altering a little. I'll proceed with the rest of my review. Chiswick Chap (talk) 10:27, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- The new images are better. What about this for an historic Archaeopteryx image? Petter Bøckman (talk) 09:54, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- Thank you, Chiswick Chap. If you have found a way that will satisfy the scientists and allow you to pass the GA, I will certainly be happy with it. --Stfg (talk) 09:47, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- So I see. What is your view of my suggestion above? Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:02, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
- The main action (with a bit of temperature to it) seems to be happening here: Talk:Transitional_fossil#Major_alterations_during_GA_review. Your input would be very welcome. Petter Bøckman (talk) 08:48, 31 March 2012 (UTC)
Additional Notes
- ^ Compliance with other aspects of the Manual of Style, or the Manual of Style mainpage or subpages of the guides listed, is not required for good articles.
- ^ Either parenthetical references or footnotes can be used for in-line citations, but not both in the same article.
- ^ This requirement is significantly weaker than the "comprehensiveness" required of featured articles; it allows shorter articles, articles that do not cover every major fact or detail, and overviews of large topics.
- ^ Vandalism reversions, proposals to split or merge content, good faith improvements to the page (such as copy editing), and changes based on reviewers' suggestions do not apply. Nominations for articles that are unstable because of unconstructive editing should be placed on hold.
- ^ Other media, such as video and sound clips, are also covered by this criterion.
- ^ The presence of images is not, in itself, a requirement. However, if images (or other media) with acceptable copyright status are appropriate and readily available, then some such images should be provided.