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Additionally, I noticed your questions in Kosovo war talk page, and for the sake of having others read through it, I will post my opinion there. Thanks for showing interest. Ilir pz 20:20, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
There are two major dialect groups, the Ghegs, to the north of the Shkumbin River, and the Tosks, to the south. Kosovar Albanians are Ghegs. The Ghegs, who make up two-thirds of Albanians, are less intermarried with non-Albanians than the Tosks, who throughout history were more often subjected to foreign rule and other foreign influences. In the past, the Ghegs were organized in clans and the Tosks in a semifeudal society. Before World War II the Ghegs dominated Albanian politics, but after the war many Tosks came to power because the new Communist government drew most of its support from Tosks
It loocks that is not dialect? the Ghegs were organized in clans and the Tosks in a semifeudal society or you meam the north and west beacose the line at Shkumbim is not a strict line. Only a know that in north Albanian (Montenegro, Kosovo) was organisedit in clans, but in Macedonien (they are gege too) hey was ogranisedet not in clans? The gege dialec hase more spoked wariants nothing eles. You can not seperet in gege and tosk the cultur, politic ... the only differe is that the tosk dialect is more uninificat that gege dialect nothing eles. The officel langege is not tosk but, beacose that tosk dialect was more unificatet they have taket the sistem from tosk dialect.
Summaries and "minor edits"
Please don't make use of misleading edit summaries, and inappropriate use of the "minor edit" box, especially on articles as well-known to be controversial as Kosovo. Alai 02:08, 20 May 2006 (UTC)
Alanians
This [1] is your personal view (opinion) and has nothing to do with Enciklopedi.--Hipi Zhdripi 03:22, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Witch is the alfabet (leters) of Tosks dialect? (see tradicional greece and arvanitas)--Hipi Zhdripi 03:26, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Hipi, I've sourced this information from The Encyclopeda Britannica [2] the Albanian site Albinfo.com [3] and the Minnesota State University site (emuseum) on world cultures [4]. What is it you object to?Osli73 07:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Kosovo
I noticed you expressed your opinion about the definition of Kosovo's status, in Kosovo page. Calling it a province in the central Balkans describes best what its situation is. One, it is descriptive, it shows its status and ___location in the region. Two, it does not predict its status. It might be easy just like that for you to call it a province of Serbia, but to someone it might be offensive...due to many many reasons, which you may know as well. Regards, ilir_pz 08:37, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Ilir, I realize that the future status of Kosovo is yet to be determined. However, what I wanted to describe in the Kosovo article is its de facto current status. Kosovo is a province of Serbia, although under UN administration. Negotiations about its status are ongoing. If it might be offensive to some to state the obvious doesn't seem to be pertinent. Just saying that it's "a province in the cental Balkans" doesn't answer the question, "province of what". Better to say it like it is. There's no politics in that.Osli73 12:29, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
- Does it have to be "of something" ? Kosovo according to its constitutional framework is a compact entity under UN administration. In my travellign docouments, in the part where country should be specified it says "territory under interim UN administration". Where is the problem with my definition? ilir_pz 13:08, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
- Feel free to browse throug Constitutional Framework and tell me where it says that Kosovo is a part of Serbia? I will cite in the document point 1.1. "1.1 Kosovo is an entity under interim international administration which, with its people, has unique historical, legal, cultural and linguistic attributes." This document is approved by all the international community, and is the document with the highest value there. ilir_pz 13:12, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Ilir, internationally and by the UN, Kosovo is recognized as an autonomous province of Serbia administered by the UN. Resolution 1244 defines Kosovo as a part of Yugoslavia, of which Serbia is the internationally recognized successor state. For example, consider the wording of this [5] Security Council press release on Kosovo. It reads "....Kosovo (Serbia and Montenegro)". In western media Kosovo is also described as a province of Serbia run by the UN. I don't see why this is so controversial for you.
Just because the Kosovo Albanian provisional government has produced a Constitutional Framework and issued travel documents which don't mention Serbia/Yugoslavia doensn't change the fact.
Finally, I sincerely hope Kosovo is granted independence by the end of the year. However, I don't believe in bending the truth for the sake of politics. As you seem to want to do.Osli73 14:06, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
- The constitutional framework and travel documents were prepared by the UN Mission in Kosovo, UNMIK, Osli73. You do not know even this? ilir_pz 22:23, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
You are making me cite the constitutional framework now: "CONSTITUTIONAL FRAMEWORK FOR PROVISIONAL SELF-GOVERNMENT UNMIK/REG/2001/9 - 15 May 2001 " and the travel documents UNMIK issued documents. What part of this was prepared by the Kosovo's government (which by the way is not only Albanian)ilir_pz 22:26, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Ilir, no, I'm not familiar with the travel documents issued by UNMIK, which may not explicitly state that Kosovo is officially a part of Serbia. UNMIK may have had their reasons for this. However, in all international organizations (or weight), such as the IMF, World Bank, the UN, WTO, etc, Kosovo is treated as a part of Serbia. Look at the map of the Balkans in any atlas (western, reputable) issued in western Europe and you will see Kosovo identified as a province of Serbia. Saying something else, because you want it to be so, is just silly.Osli73 07:24, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
- Are you calling me silly because I cite UN documents, which I even quoted for you? That is nice of you. Remember, I did not compile those documents, no matter what the reasons were behind them.ilir_pz 11:00, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Kosovo is identified as a part of Serbia in just about any map you can find. [[6]] The UN resolution 1244 identifies it as part of Yugoslavia (of which Serbia is the successor state). Finally, we can all agree that Kosovo is seeking independence. Obviously it is seeking independence from Serbia. Why is this so controversial?
![[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Europe_countries_map_en.png){kind=link}
- Heissan, You still did not answer what was silly in my wording above. Kosovo is seeking formal recognition of its de-facto status, and is negotiating with the international community to ratify that. The latter even said that with or without Serbian government's consent. It is clear as a crystal. ilir_pz 21:18, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
- You still use the word silly too much as in the last example [7] and even send threats that you intend to do something to let those "who don't accept the facts (you think are ok) get upset.". Consider discussing more. Shows more maturity. Then changing what YOU think is correct, and intentionally attempt to upset people. It is more polite to discuss. ilir_pz 08:25, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Ilir, I'm not trying to intentionally upset you (or anyone else). However, I'm saying that if you (or others) are upset by facts (recognized by all foreign governments) which are not in line with your POV, then this is lamentable, but doesn't change anything.Osli73 10:12, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Here, yet again, I tell you which facts are recognized by foreign government, and are the most imporant documents in Kosovo, 1244 resolution and its constitutional framework. You don't want to browse through them, do you? The compromise can be found in the resolution 1244, where it is clearly stated that Kosovo will be formally considered as a part of FRY, and the UN interim admin there will lead the process to define its status (hint: there is no status until then). Osli73, referring to non-partisan organisations resarch groups and several old maps is trying to impose his NPOV on an article, and at the same time refusing to quote the documents with the highest importance in Kosovo, 1244 Resolution and Kosovo's [www.unmikonline.org/constframework.htm Constitutional Framework]. Ignoring these two important documents, and instead referring to sites of convenience to NPOV push is not appreciated in Wikipedia. Furthermore, no need to accuse Kosovar Albanian wikipedians, for inisting in these internationally recognized, and most important documents valid in Kosovo as of now. Why do you refuse to consider these two documents? Regards, ilir_pz 13:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Ilir, UNSCR 1244 confirmed that Kosovo was to remain a part of FRY. As such, it was a province of Serbia. When FRY was replaced by SCG Kosovo continued being a province of Serbia. And when SCG break up and each republic goes it alone, Kosovo will remain a province of Serbia.¨
Telling Wikipedia's readers that Kosovo is a part of FRY/SCG rather than a province of Serbia is comparable to describing Catalonia as a part of the EU and not mentioning anything about it being a province of Spain. Osli73 14:12, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
Presidents of Kosovo
I am not sure presidents from 1989 to 1999 should be added as presidents. During that time apartheid existed in Kosovo, so they were not legitimate presidents. Besides, they were not called presidents, but something like "the head of the committee" or something. The first time Kosovo had a president was after 1999, with Ibrahim Rugova being the first. ilir_pz 10:04, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
For once, I agree with you. However, which aparheid are you referring to?Osli73 10:07, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
- Eversince Milosevic took over the control over Kosovo, abolished its autonomy, and installed a brutal military regime, until ending that in the most brutal way in 1999. That cannot be described in any other word. About the presidents, you might want to reconsider then. ilir_pz 10:18, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I've taken out the pre-1999 presidents. To me Kosovar society seems just as segregated and marred by intercomunal violence as before. Just that the boot is on the other foot. If foreign soldiers weren't keeping order, things would definately be back to the same old ways. Don't you think?Osli73 08:35, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- The foreign soldiers need to stay for some time, I agree, as there is a wide gap, and a lot of mistrust in each other between communities. And no, this is not due to the war in 1999. The mistrust has been building up for centuries, and generations. You cannot expect miracles in 7 years, can you? You still hear messages of hatred of Polish for Germans, or Dutch or French jokes about Germans...and what? the war ended 60 years ago. Time will heal wounds, but not as fast as some foreigners want it to happen. ilir_pz 09:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
If Albanians and Serbs could stick to just making jokes about each other (like people do in W Europe) that would be a huge improvement. But, you're right, it's not likely to happen that fast. Certainly not after 7 years. However, the 'healing process' isn't likely to go any faster by both sides constantly listing the atrocities and wrongs committed by the other. But I guess it is a question of mentality that is very difficult to change. That's why I think it's a good idea for these two people to live apart in their own separate countries, just like CG and Serbia.
- Let us hope the time of "just making jokes" is close. But listing atrocities is actual right now, as there are thousands missing, and wounds are far from being healed. Justice should be provided to innocent victims. Only then can the real healing, or better to put it "forgiving but not forgetting" process. The mentality to change, that will take much longer. Hopefully the new generations will one day, as the old ones still live in myths. That is is a good idea for Kosovo to be independent, we knew that a long time ago. But division in ethnic lines, besides being impossible as Sers do not live in a compact area in Kosovo, it may also have a chain effect. At least the Contact Group does not support this idea at all. Were you thinking smth like this when saying "these two people to live apart" ?ilir_pz 09:12, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Oh and when you edit Kosovo article please make sure you do not blank out major parts of the text, like you did in your last revert, you took off Economy, Demographics and some parts on other culture heritage damaged during the war in Kosovo. It can happen, but pay more attention next time. Thanks in advance, ilir_pz 09:22, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
- Can you at least discuss why you are removing external links from Kosovo war article? trying to heal the hatred or...? Explanation, in the comments line, or in the talk page is always appreciated, to justify your edits. ilir_pz 13:25, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
Well, (1) there were too many links to be genuinely useful; (2) some were a bit too specific and (3) a lot of them were quite partisan and more about POV pushing. I understand the logic for discussing big changes, but not for making corrections or general clean-up. Otherwise you'll end up with very long but very poorly edited articles.Osli73 13:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
The Kosovo war article is highley slanted towards Serbs, and will have to change soon.Ferick 17:39, 30 May 2006 (UTC)