I'm uncertain if the term Mohammedan belongs on this list. It was, originally, the accepted terminology in much of Europe for a Muslim person. While it is currently out of favor (and viewed as archaic) it seems that some continue to use it in a deliberately pejorative manner. Any thoughts?
- I don't see how Mohammedan's use could be construed as being pejorative. School text books I was using in the 1990s still had "Mohammedans" in them, it was simply what was used before the terms Moslem then Muslim became known of.
- Well, it's offensive to certain Muslims because it implies they worship Mohammed. Those who use it because they know Muslims find it offensive are using it pejoratively. --Dante Alighieri 21:08 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- I recognize there are people who choose to be offended by it, but Mohammedan no more implies that they worship Mohammed than "Calvinist" implies Calvinists worship Calvin or Lutheran implies Lutherans worship Luther. -- Someone else 21:21 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- The point is that it's being used pejoratively. Take a look at Yankee, that has a real definition, but that's not how it's being used. --Dante Alighieri 00:07 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- If it's being used perjoratively, it's perjorative. But it still doesn't imply that anyone's worshipping Mohammed. -- Someone else 00:14 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- Several other terms on the list were once, and sometimes still are, regarded as neutral descriptive terms (Yankee, Papist, Gypsy). These, and "Mohammedan", might not count as "slurs", but their presence on the list seems correct. Perhaps the title of the list needs to be broadened a bit. Sara
Also, if we add in the usage of "common" names (Juan to refer to a Mexican person, Boris to refer to a Russian person, etc.) the list will be overrun. What about a few sentences describing the phenomenon and an example or two?
Furthermore, what about phrases like sheep-fucker. This is used by the British and Americans to talk about the Scottish, the Australians to talk about the New Zealanders, the New Zealanders to talk about the Australians, and so on... Should this article try to sort out that sort of thing or stick with more concrete terms? --Dante Alighieri 12:36 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- That term probably sees far more use than almost everything else listed in this article, so yes it should be added. A significant percentage of Australians use it as their standard term in reference of New Zealanders. Australian television advertisements feature that theme in them too.
- But how to deal with the variation in meaning in different cultures? I'll leave it up to someone more familiar with Commonwealth countries to handle that. --Dante Alighieri 21:08 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
I really can't see Charlie and Gerry as ethnic slurs. I've never seen or heard them used in a derogatory fashion. Every military on the planet has thousands of slang words, but suspiciously the words reserved for the enemy are mostly clean while the words used to describe women, for example, are something to write home about. --Markonen 12:54 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- Fair enough, votes on whether to keep or remove Charlie and Gerry? --Dante Alighieri 21:08 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Charlie isnt a term of disparagement. Pizza Puzzle
- Both Charlie and Jerry seem specifically to mean enemy soldiers. They're slang, and they aren't exactly compliments, but they don't appear to be pejorative per se. You wouldn't call someone that as an insult; they don't work like "gook" or "kraut". Their grammar is different: "Charlie" seems to function as a mass noun rather than a count noun; you bomb "Charlie," but I don't think you capture "Charlies." In movies and such, you don't see "Jerry" so much as you see "the Jerries," AFAICR. -- IHCOYC 19:22, 11 Aug 2003 (UTC)
What of terms that label "evildoers" with ethnic names? The Vandals, for example, -> vandalism, and the British use of "hooligan"? -- not, perhaps, ethnic labels, but neverthess ethnic slurs. -- Someone else 21:38 8 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- Good point. I think that vandal has a decent shot at being on the list, but I'm unfamiliar with the British usage of hooligan (here in the States it just means troublemaker). --Dante Alighieri 00:08 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)
- It does just mean troublemaker, usually at a football match, but it does hearken back to the Irish origin of the word, so it's a bit troublesome in, say, Maggie Thatcher's mouth. -- Someone else 00:13 9 Jun 2003 (UTC)
Jap is not a slur, its an abbreviation. And Yank/Yankee are hardly terms of disparagement. Pizza Puzzle
- I don't know anyone who doesn't consider Jap a slur. I've heard people use it sometimes, thinking it was just an abbreviation, but all Japanese I know take insult at it and almost all non-Japanese I know know that. -- Tlotoxl 09:19, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Agree about Yank, I was quite surprised to see it called pejorative; here it's just the normal term for a US citizen (regardless of side of Mason-Dixon line). I wouldn't even call it slang so much as informal. Similarly pom isn't pejorative, it just means British. (The pejorative form is "pommy bastard", which is actually much milder than it sounds - more of a friendly jibe than an insult.) --Roger 17 Aug 2003
As a Canadian I don't find Canuck to be in the least bit offensive. If someone says, 'You fucking Canuck!' I will take offensive, I guess, but only because of how they said it (i.e., 'You fucking Canadian!' would be just as offensive).
As a foreigner living in Japan, I also don't find gaijin to be very offensive. It's definitely worse than Canuck, but it all depends on context and I don't take offense 95% of the time when someone calls me a gaijin.
Maybe the list should have some sort of rating system to indicate whether a slur is always offensive, offensive when used by an outsider or rarely offensive. It's really ridiculous having 'Canuck' alongside of 'nigger' and 'chink' as if they're somehow even close to being the same thing.
-- Tlotoxl 09:19, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- I don't object, fundamentally, to some sort of rating system, except that I would imagine that doing it in a fully NPOV manner would be difficult. Different people will find different words more or less offensive. That being said, there's already a qualifier at the top of the page that not all terms are equally offensive.
- Clearly, however, some distinctions need to be made. While it is perfectly acceptable to have a hockey team named the Canucks, it would be highly offensive to have a team called the Chinks (even assuming that the Chinese were big hockey fans).
- What about the Redskins?
- There's a bit of controversy about those sort of team names: Redskins, Chiefs, Indians, Braves, etc. Some people take offense to them, some people don't. The obvious argument against them is that they relegate Native Americans (or American Indians, or Amerindians, or First Peoples, or what have you) to the same position as animals (Broncos, Dolphins, Ravens, Rams). Now, there's also a counter-argument against that, since we have the UNLV Running Rebels and the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, so its clearly not limited to native peoples. Still, I think that since "Chink" is unambiguously offensive and since the "Canucks" are mostly making fun of themselves, the Redskins et al. don't fall clearly into either category. --Dante Alighieri 05:57, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
- While we're at it, I suppose it might be time to start thinking about renaming the article. Clearly not all the phrases in the article are ethnic slurs, so perhaps List of fighting words might be more appropriate. In any event, I'll await further discussion here on the Talk page before doing anything drastic.
- --Dante Alighieri 10:10, 21 Aug 2003 (UTC)
- The easiest way might be to rate them with an easily typed symbol system, say, as !, !!, or !!! on degree of offensiveness, with a small explanation at the bottom of the page, so that you would see nigger (!!!) and canuck (!). -- IHCOYC
Gin didn't originate as an ethnic slur. Gin actually comes from an Aboriginal dialect where it does mean "woman". So it's inclusion falls into the doubtful category.
I'm in the US and I haven't heard anyone use "sars" to refer to a person of ANY ethnicity. Can anyone actually confirm its usage? --Dante Alighieri 19:50, 23 Aug 2003 (UTC)
A Whole Lot of B.S........
I just stumbled across this page of the wikipedia and find it to be very insulting for ANY RACE of people. I find that you people don't find any name calling offensive, which is very scary. This is very troubling and disturbing. I don't think anyone need a damn dictionary full of NAME CALLING to enhance their vocabulary, (if you want to call it that). Perhaps you fools should be concentrating on how to live together, rather than what new word you can come up with to piss someone off. I guess the world is so corrupt until anything goes, and that is the frightening part.....I guess all of you are prejudice...
- Reply: There is a fine line between being prejudice and racist, prejudice is a natural aspect, where racism is acts of violence (mentaly or physicaly) when a person knowningly uses "ethnic slurs" normally it is to create hurt (spreading seeds of hatred) , I believe this page offers people who are unaware an opertunity to change the wrong mentality they have been indoctrinated with from corrupt social teachings ****
Terms that have become a norm
Years back I was involved with group discussions. These group discussions were moderated by select individuals who were to be unbiased in evaluation of attitudes and beliefs expressed between group members. One day in the midst of discussion I made the statement "I felt as I had been Jew'd." Immediately one of the group members pointed a finger at me and stated "ethnic slur, ethnic slur." My physical and verbal response to was "what the heck or you talking about." I hadn't a clue, as to what was said, that was considered an ethnic slur. At that point one of the moderators spoke up and said "Joe, I am Jewish." As we kept strong eye contact, she could tell I was still bewildered and made another comment along the lines of "You know it is really amazing how select terms are used so much, that after time those terms become a norm and people are completely unaware as to what they are saying." I was still bewildered as the moderator continued with "you said, I was Jew'd." With that statement my words instantly rang out in my memory. I made an apology followed with an excuse that I did not realize. The moderator acknowledged my apology and unawareness based on her understanding of how people so easily fall into the trap of using ethnic slurs as a norm.
To this day people may cry and whine about being called a "Hun" and at the same time those same people will project back similar ethnic slurs without realizing the actual meaning.
For those that do realize actual meaning and continue to utilize terms that are "ethnic slurs", that is something they will have to carry with them. The result is compounded hurt they will continue to try and project onto others. At times they will be successful in dong so giving hatred a means to root itself and grow.
If one elects to continue spreading garbage after they are made aware as to
what they are doing, it is their decission to be a "ethnic slur garbage
collator."
Consider what has occurred with our families over time the next time you trip up and use any "ethnic slur." I know I do .... and I understand it is our Cajun families/relations who I have insulted besides myself.
Choupiuqe
born and raised in the swamps .... bound to family through the waters of the
bayou teche.
Hi, I think my listing of "hajji" might be a bit POV, I'm not the most patriotic American and maybe that shows.. is there a better term than "occupation forces?" --Pakaran 17:13, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)
- Is someone in Iraq to witness that there is this usage?
- It was mentioned in the news, want me to dig up a reference? --Pakaran 17:44, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)
I'd dispute that the n*gger word is used in New Zealand in reference to the Maori. I've never once heard that word used in reference to them. Also, including pakeha on this list would be controversial. Crusadeonilliteracy 17:38, 5 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Removed the following:
*Brit - Ireland, U.S., Canada, Australia, New Zealand, U.K. citizen (nearly always disparaging in Ireland, less clearly so elsewhere)
"Brit" can hardly qualify as a slur, seeing that Brits happily use it to describe themselves. If I say rude things about the Aussies, does that make "Aussie" a slur? 172.187.222.103 23:51, 9 Dec 2003 (UTC)
Coonass, swamp n__ger, levee rat > degrading terms projected towards Cajun People.
Please add to list page ....
Choupiuqe born and raised in the swamps .... bound to family through the waters of the bayou teche.
Back to the notion of a ratings system, here's an idea for rating the terms from zero to four symbols-yet-to-be-decided (I'll use @ in the example):
(no @s) Slang terms which are not necessarily offensive (Canuck, limey, goy).
@ Historical terms once used descriptively, but now considered incorrect (Mohammedan, Negro, oriental, darkie, Gypsy); terms which are offensive only when used inaccurately (Chinese referring to Asians who are not Chinese).
@@ Moderately offensive slang terms (oreo, frog, most given names used as slurs).
@@@ Highly offensive phrases (porch monkey, towelhead)
@@@@ Highly offensive, highly prevalent "classic" slurs (nigger, wop, chink, spic, honky, dago, and so forth --- literally ad nauseum).
Yes, there are POV issues here, but as long as there's a degree of consensus, and intelligent discussion about what is not agreed on, we should come up on something close to objectivity.
Sara 02:55, 9 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Any explainaitions when we have to use capital letter for the first word and when not ? All the words in this page are all mixed between words starting with capital letters and some not. --Chmouel Boudjnah 23:11, 12 Feb 2004 (UTC)
I have a question: is Anglo - US, a white person really an ethnic slur? I've never heard it used as such. -- BCorr ¤ Брайен 01:39, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)
- I'd agree--I'd think of it as a shorthand form, no more. Meelar 01:44, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)
a
very good site of slurs yet youre missin some
such as :
Keffer: Afrikaan: a black person Wagon- Burner: An Native American
Wagon Burner? Never ever heard that. RickK | Talk 06:34, 19 Mar 2004 (UTC)
- I think I might have heard it at one point or other... but don't take this to be definitive validation. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 06:50, Mar 19, 2004 (UTC)
- Just googled it. It's not terribly popular (although one might imagine it's just not terribly popular on the net) but it does seem to be in use. Here's a link: [1]. --Dante Alighieri | Talk 06:52, Mar 19, 2004 (UTC)
This page is ridiculous! It seems like half the terms on here were just arbitrarily added by people who have no idea what the words mean. An example is "chino". This is NOT an anti-Chinese racial slur that Hispanic Americans use. The truth of the matter is that "chino" means "Chinese" in Spanish! When a Mexican-American calls a Chinese person a "chino", it's no different than when he calls a Hispanic a "latino" or a Mexican-American a "mexicano". "Chino" DOES NOT mean "chink", and it's sort of anti-Spanish racism/ignorance that led someone to post "chino" as a racial slur.
Also, "Eskimo" shouldn't be considered a racial slur because of false etymology. I've never referred to Eskimos as Inuits and, in fact, was sometimes led to believe they were two different things. "Inuits" were the Native American tribes who lived in the northern Canada/Alaska area, and Eskimos are but one group/tribe of Inuit people who lived in a typical way (igloos and whatnot).
Also, I'm Italian-American, and I have to say that some of the things on the page are ridiculous. For example, it's offensive to call an Italian-American "Fabio"? I don't think so. If we use that kind of logic than ANYTHING could become a racial slur. For example, is it also an anti-Italian slur if someone were to call me Joe Pesci or Danny Devito? I mean, come on!
- Please keep in mind that people in different countries "feel" the words in a different way. Also, it all depends on the intonation. FOr example, "Ivan" is a typical Russian name. But when spoken "These 'Ivans' did this and that" it turns into a slur. And you must agree that "These 'Sergeys' did this and that" doesn't sound the same. The same if for Fabio. Probably in some circles 'Fabio' is pronounced with a derogatory feel. And an Italian must know that when somebody called him "Hey, you, Fabio!", it doesn't necessarily mean that the caller mistook him for some Fabio he thought he knows. After the WWII in Russia almost all common German names Hans, Fritz, etc., became ethnic slurs, guess why. Mikkalai 22:05, 23 May 2004 (UTC
<<<<After the WWII in Russia almost all common German names Hans, Fritz, etc., became ethnic slurs, guess why. Mikkalai 22:05, 23 May 2004 (UTC)>>>>
Right, but that's my point. Almost anything could be considered an ethnic slur, depending on the context. As an Italian, I've never heard the "Fabio" thing. And, IMO, it'd be far more insulting to call me, say, a "Soprano" or something like that. I'm not sure if anyone uses "Soprano" as a racial mafia slur in that way, but I don't see why it wouldn't be. This could also be done with any real-life mafioso names, e.g. "Gotti" or any other fictional mafia characters. IMO, that doesn't make these words racial slurs. Like you said above, would it make sense to list all German names as slurs because Russians MAY use them in a negative way?
Would it make sense to list every Asian name or every African-American-sounding name (i.e., Jamal, Yolanda, Kwaneesha) as slurs because racists might sometimes apply any arbitrary name to a person of a certain ethnic group in order to offend? I don't think it would.
We need to be very careful about folk etymology. I noticed that some for 'pom' has crept onto the list. Secretlondon 01:22, 24 May 2004 (UTC)
I find much of this list rather dubious - certainly "kaffir" is used as a slur in Arabic, and is used by some to refer to all non-Muslims; it was picked up by white colonialists in Africa from Arab and Zanzibari slave traders they met there. "Bushie" must surely be a diminutive of Bushman rather than "Coloured". While "paki" is used as a slur, "pak" is used by Pakistani newspapers to save space in their English language headlines and articles, so it seems to be the user rather than the meaning which matters. I don't see the slur in "Soviet" at all, though it is now out of date. And I would have thought "spic" was a shortening of "Hispanic". Many of the others look unlikely to me. Does this page come anywhere near the quality required? --Henrygb 01:22, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Is "yuppie" really an ethnic slur? In the UK, it doesn't refer to any particular ethnic origin, though it might in the US. American wikipedians advise? Bonalaw 10:16, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
Differentiation, elaboration
While I wouldn't argue against the inclusion of a list and discussion (!) of racial slurs and the like, I'd wish its quality to improve dramatically, especially given the sensitive nature of the topic. Note that some people may be offended even by reading this page(s).
Being German, my comments will include a 'german' perspective. Some notes: 1) The only word reportedly used by Germans in the list is 'Tommy'. It can still be used today (although it rarely is) referring to British soldiers. Per se, the term is hardly derogatory. Unlike a page you link to claims ("Germans called the Brits this in WWII. They thought Tommy was a common British name.") it refers to the British soldiers' pay books which used the name "Thomas Atkins" as an exemplary signature. Hence the hypocoristic form 'Tommy' was used as a generic term for 'British soldier'. 2) Unlike apparently in the US, the word 'Yankee' is derogatory in German, unless used in historical context: e.g. Yankees vs Southerners. 3) That brings me to the question of context. For this page to be more help- and insightful, I would appreciate more context and historical background. It would, e.g. be interesting to know whether 'Adolf' can still, and in any context be used as generic term for 'Germans' or rather when describing Germans as 'Nazis' (which may, of course coincide, depending on the speakers intentions). How is it used ? "He's an Adolf" = German ? 4) Lastly, I would like to single out the entry 'Nazi' which you gloss as 'a German person'. While I'm aware that some people still like to indiscriminately qualify Germans as Nazis, I think at least in Europe, Nazi does not necessarily mean German. Historically, of course, it is short for 'follower of the doctrine of 'Nationalsozialismus. While this movement came to power in Germany, and its most prominent exponants and, perhaps more importantly, the far-reaching realization of its tenets (e.g. the Holocaust) are inseparably connected with German history, Nazism was never, nor is, either uniquely or exclusively German. Especially Neo-Nazism is widespread today, with major centers, e.g. in North America and various European countries. Hence the current usage of the word, as I know it, is that it refers to a follower of Nazism, whatever nationality he or she has. I'm pretty sure that, at least in Europe 'he's a Nazi' isn't homonymous with 'he's German'. But that may be different in the US or elsewhere. Can anybody clarify ?
P.S. Certainly the usage of the word 'Nazi' depends on each person's historical awareness. After WW II countries like France or the Netherlands undertook great efforts to expunge the memory or their respective Nazi movements and collaboration. The picture given in school books etc. was that all French/ Dutch were in the resistance, while only the Germans were Nazi. Such a clear-cut national divide of course never existed. Suffice it to say that there were thousands of Dutch (and also French) in the Waffen SS. Also, there were quite a few Germans e.g. fighting in the French 'Résistance'. Such 'details' tend to be conveniently forgotten, so, perhaps the equation Nazi = (exlusively) German may live in many heads. I'd be interested to read your comments on that.
Kiwi and General comment
I see that Kiwi is in the list. Maybe a New Zealander can correct me (perhaps I am an insentitive Australian) but I really doubt that this is a slur as no Kiwi has yet to hit me for using it. On that basis I ought to add Aussie.
This leads to another observation. There are various debates above that discuss whether or not a word should appear and whether or not a slur. How about we solve the problme by chaging the list to a list of names that are slang terms use for an ethnic gourp, nationality, culter or whatever. We could add data to indicate
- An indication of level of offensiveness, preferably validated by a member of the group being offended, otherwise subjective by necessity!
- An indication of whether the term used by others to refer to the group (eg boong): or also used internally (eg Kiwi, wog).
- An indication of the form of english that uses the word: plus any differences between forms of english.
This would allow the list to expand to include other 'alternative' and slang names for groups.
Not sure about sorting or splitting into sub topics: could be by target group or the using group: ideally both.
This is a 'shit load' of work, but may solve the issue. --GPoss 00:59, Aug 22, 2004 (UTC)
BJAODN time?
Either this has a couple of mistakes in it, or it's a candidate for BJAODN:
Shigga, Sexinese, ; Of Sexinese descent. Highly sexy and irresistable. a must-fuck
The User Formerly Known As 82.6.10.139 02:00, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)