Talk:Steve Gibson (computer programmer)
Complaints Against Steve Gibson
User: Could you better explain the nature of the complaints against Steve Gibson? It is important to address them specifically. --Alexwcovington 08:53, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Credited with coining the term spyware by who? First time ive heard it.... The article is POV and needs to be rewritten - for a start some discussion of what Gibsons critics (virtually the entire security industry) have said or the whole syn cookies debacle might help balance it a bit. Gibson is wonderfull at public relations but Id like to see any article that was a bit more honest than this fawning statement....
The GPA is more proof of this being written by a GRC acolyte - and gibsons written exactly one software program - Spinrite - and thats it - so i also question his credentials as a software engineer.
POV and boldly so
- I agree with Alexwcovington, the section on critism needs sourcing. In the links are two pages, but they don't really seem like great sources. "Secruity Experts" are mentioned over and over, but not who they may be. To quote WP:NPOV, If a viewpoint is held by a significant minority, then it should be easy to name prominent adherents;. This needs to be done. --Falcorian | Talk 05:22, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- In my experience, the majority of security professionals take the view that Steve Gibson is a media darling rather than a security expert. The relevant section of WP:NPOV is "If a viewpoint is in the majority, then it should be easy to substantiate it with reference to commonly accepted reference texts;". Unfortunately this is not the case as expertise in computer security is invariably gathered through experience rather than reference texts (That's to say that there is no single text which can be referred to; one requires an appreciation of the entire field). Additionally most but not all controversies surrounding this man stem from failure to communicate vital nuances or from massively overplaying the importance of insignificant aspects rather than outright misinformation. --DanPope 23:05, 24 January 2006 UTC
POV Dispute
This article needs ALOT of work. It reads like a back and forth argument right now. --Falcorian | Talk 05:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
- I think the article has come a long way in a short time. I think Copysan put in a particularly good edit. I'm a little concerned of the direction Kupci is moving the article... Equating this article to the Seigenthaler debacle, especially after the recent improvements is a step backward, and I do believe that Gibson's critics have bases for their accusations and deserve a measure of consideration in this article. --AlexWCovington (talk) 18:37, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- I agree the article has come along way. I do agree with Kupci's removal of GRCSucks.com, because regardless of the merit of the claims against Gibson on it, it does have a title that doesn't seem appropriate. However, his edits seem to be pushing the article a little into the NPOV zone.Oh yes, his comparing this to Seigenthaler seems way off base as well. --Falcorian | Talk 23:41, 18 January 2006 (UTC)
- GRCSucks.com should not be removed. 'A title that doesn't seem appropriate'? Oh get a life. GRCSucks has more and more benevolent factual information on the charlatan than anyone. Anyone duped to think otherwise is a - dupe. talk
- Immaturity doesn't strengthen your case. --Falcorian(talk) 17:40, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
I'm wondering what purpose the Radsoft links serve. Both are either POV and/or out of date. If the content there is verifiable, wouldn't it be better to place the links in context as a part of the article?Sschinke 02:21, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
- They serve the purpose of... Well... Nothing really. Frankly though, I was too lazy to read through them and decided to let someone else make the call as I didn't want to be seen as monopolizing the links section. ;) --Falcorian (talk) 04:29, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
Links Removed
I have removed three links, they are as follows:
- Why Assembly Language Is BAAAD - This article has nothing to do with Gibson. Yes, he codes in Assembly but that's the only real link. I'd suggest Assembly language if you want to include information from the article. Frankly, this link is like putting a "Ford is BAD!" link at the bottom of random articles of people who drive Fords.
- Web-myth debunker's life threatened by Steve Gibson Groupie - I skimmed this article, and it seems to be about a random fan, not Gibson. I may have missed the line where it says "It turns out it was Gibson that sent the death threat", but I don't think I did.
- Steve Gibson Criticism - Removed for the above reason. I also don't believe that sites that at least try to pass themselves off as smear sites help Wikipedia's credibility, and further I think criticism of Gibson has been thoroughly covered by the previous links.
--Falcorian(talk) 18:21, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
- I think GRCsucks.com may deserve a link in the criticism section, but I agree the other links are unnecessary. --AlexWCovington (talk) 21:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
- I seem to be in the minority on removing it, so by all means throw it back up. --Falcorian (talk) 00:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Agreeing with Alexwcovington here. GRCSucks.com, while having an unfortunate name, does have some excellent and well thought out analysis of Gibson's claims and assertions. Copysan 21:14, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Still POV?
Falcorian, do you feel the article has improved sufficiently to remove the NPOV tag? If not, What still needs to be done? --AlexWCovington (talk) 21:58, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
- Looks better now. The only real thing I can think of left is those two radsoft articles, which I don't really feel like reading through, but which on the surface seem rather POV as pointed out above. I think the tag can safely come off. --Falcorian (talk) 00:16, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
NPOV and 62.103.255.73's Edits
62.103.255.73, please provide sourcing for your edits. The only sources I could find for some was radsoft.com, and even then it was wild speculation on the writers part. --Falcorian (talk) 16:33, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- What radsoft edits are you referring to? Are you talking about the ZoneAlarm promotion thing? Copysan 21:17, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. The Zonealarm thing, so far as I could tell with a quick google search, is based on a radsoft article, which, if my brief read of it is correct, basicly says "This seems likely so it is!". But also in reguards to the number of people working there, and a few other changes.--Falcorian (talk) 21:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Agree. I read the radsoft articles, and I could not find any objective evidence. The radsoft articles compare Gibson to Hitler. While I'm not a member of Gibson's Gestapo, I can see that the radsoft article should not be used as a source. From this evidence and Falcorian's search, I think that any unsourced further mention about ZoneAlarm and Gibson should be regarded as vandalism. Copysan 23:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
- Yes. The Zonealarm thing, so far as I could tell with a quick google search, is based on a radsoft article, which, if my brief read of it is correct, basicly says "This seems likely so it is!". But also in reguards to the number of people working there, and a few other changes.--Falcorian (talk) 21:54, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Does Gibson hold an Engineer's degree ?
I would like to add this information into the introduction, similar to the one on the Leo Laporte page, to clarify the use of the word engineer in this article:
Gibson studied EECS at UC Berkeley, but did not earn a degree.
I couldn't find any evidence that Gibson holds an Engineer's degree, List of University of California, Berkeley alumni says "attended", but does not mention any academic degree. Please comment. --Ministry of Truth 06:09, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- I'm not seeing any such claims in the article at present -- it seems that Gibson dropped out to pursue his career. Besides, in the United States most schools have B.S., M.S., and Ph.D or D.Eng programs rather than engineering degrees in the sense described in the article. --AlexWCovington (talk) 15:56, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- Given the use of Engineer, whether he obtained an academic title is relevant information and the same information about Leo Laporte is therefore included on his page. As you think he dropped out too, I'll add this information unless proof of any academic titles earned is provided here over the next couple of days. --Ministry of Truth 17:33, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- I believe you may be suffering from a bit of culture shock here; in the United States the term "Engineer" is used a bit more loosely than in other countries; perhaps this is unfortunate but we can't redact Wikipedia to reflect what we think the world should be; Gibson could be described as an engineer, at least by US standards, by his body of work. --AlexWCovington (talk) 18:43, 14 June 2006 (UTC)
- I agree with you that WP should take its worldwide audience into account and as neither the factual truth nor the added value of such a mention have been disputed so far, I contemplate to make the edit as worded above soon. --Ministry of Truth 12:05, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
If I may throw in my two cents before running off for two weeks: I'd have to see the evidence that he did not graduate, as the only bit that has been brought up so far is a site that is not all inclusive. Since there has been no good evidence either way, I think the current "Attended" works perfectly. --Falcorian (talk) 20:35, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
- Fair point. I see you're an assistant at the University of California, Berkeley, would you kindly share your inside knowledge how to verify this fact one way or the other without actually going there as I don't live nearby ? That might also give us the opportunity to put "attended" back into the list where you removed it, which tends to contradict the above "works perfectly" a bit:http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_University_of_California%2C_Berkeley_alumni&diff=prev&oldid=58823514 --Ministry of Truth 21:51, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
SYN Cookies
Minitruth, could you please add how it is inferrior or source? Simply putting "It is inferrior" is rather POV and unverified. Thanks. --Falcorian (talk) 20:38, 15 June 2006 (UTC)