Talk:SpaceX reusable launch system development program
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Article was split
For the record: Because this article was getting too large, and per the discussion in the Talk page section immediately above this one ("Discussing a couple of recent edits"), the article was split on 2015-04-23T23:30:12 by User:Appable, removing "34,456 Bytes", with the following edit comment by Appable: (Splitting article, this article was getting massive. See talk page of this article for details, additionally see the main article Falcon 9 ocean booster landing tests, which includes all of the removed content.)
Thanks to Appable for doing the work! N2e (talk) 03:42, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for the summary in the talk page. If you'd like to read more on the split, there's a discussion on it right above. Thanks N2e and all the contributors for your work on this article and the comprehensive coverage of each landing test! Content there was great.
- Incidentally, the lead section on the new main article Falcon 9 ocean booster landing tests sounds like a section header, and I personally don't think it shows notability as well as it should. I'll try to work on it over the next few days, but please add any content or streamline content so that it feels less obviously "split". Appable (talk) 03:48, 24 April 2015 (UTC)
Sources on the 7th controlled-descent test
Looks like SpaceX is discussing publically some parts of the 7th controlled-descent test on Falcon 9 Flight 17, which landed, (maybe a landing leg broke off; unclear), booster tipped over, and the tank broke open and a deflagration (kaboom) ensued. See the video SpaceX released on 15 April and is now in the article.
Other sources could be useful for improving the article. I'll start adding the sources I find here:
- Defense News interview with Shotwell, 15 April. N2e (talk) 00:33, 16 April 2015 (UTC)
- Fine-tuning Falcon 9 landing focuses on throttle valve response, 19 April. <== and another one. N2e (talk) 21:54, 19 April 2015 (UTC)
Disagreement between Intro and History
The first paragraph of the Introduction states that "the project's long-term objectives include returning a launch vehicle first stage to the launch site in minutes and to return a second stage to the launch pad" - this is at odds with the last paragraph of the History section which states that "by late 2014, SpaceX suspended or abandoned the plan to recover and reuse the Falcon 9 second stage". — Preceding unsigned comment added by JHarvey418 (talk • contribs) 18:19, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
- Good observation. We should probably clean up the text. But I think the contradiction dissapears when one recalls that this SpaceX technology development program is not specific to just the Falcon 9 launch vehicle. The company has decided not to pursue Falcon 9 second-stage reuse; they absolutely have a long-term goal of second-stage reuse also as a part of this tech dev program. It would appear, based on company statements to date, that the second-stage reuse will get additional development effort when the MCT launch vehicle development get's underway with more than the skeleton crew of current design resources. Cheers. N2e (talk) 19:20, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
Relevance of New Shepard launch
Apologies in advance as I'm a new editor, but I'm not sure the New Shepard launch, currently mentioned under History, is relevant to this article. Musk himself tweeted that the recovery of a booster from a suborbital flight is a much different goal than the recovery of the Falcon 9 orbital stages and it doesn't seem to affect SpaceX's program. Wouldn't it be more appropriate to put New Shepard under a "See Also" heading? Gnugnug (talk) 09:56, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, I completely agree. At this point in time, the Blue Origin results are more relevant to the other suborbital tourism players like Virgin Galactic and XCOR Aerospace. --IanOsgood (talk) 22:05, 2 December 2015 (UTC)
- I concur. While interesting to many, the Blue Origin test program is both for a very different purpose than the SpaceX orbital booster as well as unrelated to SpaceX' own program, as is perhaps obvious by a clean up edit I made and edit comment I left recently. It fits in Wikipedia. Just not this article. N2e (talk) 00:16, 3 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for confirming. I've made the change. Gnugnug (talk) 11:06, 4 December 2015 (UTC)
What happens to Falcon 9 Flight 20's booster now?
After its landing, I'd imagine that Falcon 9 Flight 20's booster will now be torn down by SpaceX into its component parts for analysis, but that's just my guess. Do we have any authoritative/WP:RS information about what SpaceX's plans are for this? -- The Anome (talk) 12:26, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- We seem to have our answer: [1]. It looks like it's going to be taken away from the landing site, refueled and static fired once, then dismantled for analysis. -- The Anome (talk) 22:17, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- Yes, in the main. I just added some prose to the article based on a source I found. One detail relative to what you said: I also listened to a recording of the 15-20 minute phone call teleconference that the press had with Elon Musk after the flight, and I don't believe anything was said about "dismantling" the F9 Flight 20 vehicle. I suspect what is more likely is that, after evaluating the overall structure in fine detail, some pieces from key areas of stress may be cut out or otherwise removed for destructive testing. I don't think that will happen to such an extent that the vehicle is hugely disfigured; Musk seems to want the rocket to stand as a memorial or museum piece, since he thinks they will have quite a few stages to refly in the near future (not all future flights, but thinks likely to have stages back from most of them). Cheers. N2e (talk) 05:09, 24 December 2015 (UTC)
Maintenance + unmanned
High maintenance costs ruined the economics of the reusable Space Shuttle. But that was presumably at least partly due to the Shuttle having to be extra safe to carry people, so that Falcon 9 may perhaps avoid similar problems if its payloads stay unmanned. Are there no reliable sources discussing these matters, or if there are, shouldn't they appear in the article? (The Space Shuttle's problems meant that I assumed Falcon 9 was just hype until I worked out the above arguments, but if those arguments are correct I shouldn't have had to try to work them out for myself, and neither should our other readers).Tlhslobus (talk) 13:27, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- As I understand it, many parts of the Space Shuttle had to be stripped down and rebuilt with every flight. I believe SpaceX's aim is to be able to just refuel and relaunch, in the same way as an aircraft can be refueled and relaunched. Presumably they intend to use telemetry and non-destructive inspection techniques to avoid the need for a full maintenance inspection every time. SpaceX certainly intend to make the Falcon man-rated. -- The Anome (talk) 13:40, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks. But the article currently has no mention at all of any of that in the Economic Issues and Technical Feasibility sections, which is where sceptical-but-open-to-persuasion readers like me are going to head, and not much of it elsewhere either, in the sense that it's perhaps implicit in Elon Musk's stated wishes, but an owner's wish list is not a very informative discussion of an issue. Indeed apart from wishful talk about hoping to colonize Mars (which we've been hearing for 50 years, despite the discovery of serious problems with solar flares, and cosmic rays, and the lack of any serious 'Artificial gravity' research programme on any of the various space stations), the article gives the impression that the serious plans are currently only for reusable rocket stages 1 and 2, which for a manned rocket is the equivalent of re-using the rockets but throwing away the manned bits, at least leaving the impression that any manned flight will be much less reusable than the Space Shuttle. Tlhslobus (talk) 14:19, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- If you're talking about Earth-bound missions, I believe that SpaceX intends to make all three components reusable: the first stage and second stage boosters, and the Dragon capsule, all landing vertically on their own rocket thrust. In the case of the Dragon, the landing rockets are also planned to serve as the attitude thrusters and launch escape mechanism. I can't find a reference for this at the moment, but they released a video last year (with a backing track by Muse, IIRC) showing an animation of how the whole process is intended to work. We really need to have this covered in more detail in the article. Mars I don't know about. -- The Anome (talk) 14:36, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- Thanks for the great info, The Anome. I wonder can that video be used as an acceptable RS, if it can be found? Also, do you by any chance know whether they say anything anywhere about returning to the Moon (or is it all just about Mars, with its far greater and possibly insuperable problems for the human body)?
- Think I have seen a Elon Musk interview where on being asked this question he likened it to if you build an aircraft capable of crossing the Atlantic then are there going to be other people flying across the English Channel? That of course doesn't indicate that SpaceX have moon plans and may tend to indicate either they don't or they don't want to disclose any plans they have. Impression was he thinks it is inconceivable we would do Mars and not also have someone else doing something on the moon. crandles (talk) 17:12, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- He used boats rather than planes. See [2] crandles (talk) 23:22, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
- Think I have seen a Elon Musk interview where on being asked this question he likened it to if you build an aircraft capable of crossing the Atlantic then are there going to be other people flying across the English Channel? That of course doesn't indicate that SpaceX have moon plans and may tend to indicate either they don't or they don't want to disclose any plans they have. Impression was he thinks it is inconceivable we would do Mars and not also have someone else doing something on the moon. crandles (talk) 17:12, 23 December 2015 (UTC)