Talk:Joy Division

This is an old revision of this page, as edited by Dr Zen (talk | contribs) at 12:00, 18 November 2004. The present address (URL) is a permanent link to this revision, which may differ significantly from the current revision.

There seems to be some disagreement on whether Joy Division refers to Aryan or Jewish women. -- v

I'm sure it was the latter- some of the women from the concentration camps were kept by and used as prostitutes for the camp guards- these were known as the Joy Division- there was alot of controversy over Joy Division's choice of a name in the music press at the time quercus robur
Interesting. I had always thought it was a reference to Jewish women, but then the 24 Hour Party People film and reviews claimed it was "Aryan women." Maybe the filmmakers were indulging in some revisionism so their movie wouldn't be as controversial as its subject? --Anon.
Pretty sure it was Jewish women Kabads

I'm sure it was aryan women. Its very possible that Jewish women were also abused in a similar way. I suppose it varied from country to country and camp to camp.

Accuracy dispute

I've just discovered that the main body of this article was replaced with a wholesale rewrite by 213.48.83.6 on January 13, and nobody seems to have paid it much notice. I came across it only because of one of possibly many mistakes in the article, the assertion that "Karol Cetinsky" wrote the book The House of Dolls. I don't know whether Cetinsky is a real person or not, but I have verified (via Bookfinder) that the book really was written by Ka-Tzetnik 135633 (pen name). So I am particularly nervous about the other "facts" in this rewritten article, especially since no new references were included. —LarryGilbert 21:46, 2004 Apr 28 (UTC)

Could "Karol Cetinsky" just be another pen-name for DeNur (Ka-Tzetnik 135633), perhaps? Maybe his stuff was published under that name in certain editions or certain countries. I don't really know, but searching Google for "Karol Cetinsky" brings up quite a lot of pages claiming that somebody of that name wrote The House of Dolls, so I wouldn't be too concerned this was a concerted effort to inject incorrect info into the article. The article looks OK to me - there doesn't seem to be anything obviously wrong in it, anyway. --Camembert

I did that revision ages ago when I wasnt registered and so it was logged as a number rather than my username. Regarding the Karol Cetinsky thing, I changed it because everything Ive ever read about Joy Division, mainly from music encyclopedia's and band biographies, was that it was written by Karol Cetinsky. So I just assumed that it was the english translation of Ka-Tzetnik 135633 and changed it. The rest of the article is correct according to everything that I have read. Sorry about the confusion all of this has caused.Motown Junkie 16:31, 13 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for explaining that--I've removed the factual dispute notice from the article. And thanks also for your edits :) --Camembert

Joy Division Goths?

Sorry, what? Since when? They certainly were not "marketed" as Goths. Martin Hannett might have called their music "gothic" but he was hardly their management. In any case, he almost certainly would have meant that their music was gothic in the artistic sense, rather than the black hair, black lippy, pretend you're a vampire sense. This article has been seriously POV'd by a Goth or Goths. I ask you to substantiate these claims with something a little more substantial than some website quoting Martin Hannett. I was into JD from day one and there was no way on Earth they were "viewed" as Goth then. Now might be different but tell it how it was, not how you wish it was, eh?Dr Zen 12:00, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)