Wiktionary:Etymology scriptorium/2025/August
Indonesian/Malay "tahil" etymology
Hello, Is Indonesian/Malay word tahil ("tael" (any of several eastern Asian units of measure and monetary)) an Arabic/Persian loanword? Please Yuliadhi (talk) 06:06, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
According to RAE's Orthography,
- La presencia de j o g en la grafía de las palabras que contienen el fonema /x/ delante de /e/ o /i/ depende, en la mayoría de los casos, de la etimología. https://www.rae.es/ortograf%C3%ADa/representaci%C3%B3n-gr%C3%A1fica-del-fonema-j?resaltar=jinete#I.6.2.2.3
- • Dentoalveolar africates: a) /ts/ (c + e/i, or ç): cerca, plaça. b) /dz/: fazer 'hacer'.
- • Alveolar fricatives (intervocalic): a) /s/: osso ‘oso'. b) /z/: oso ‘verb osar’.
- • Prepalatal fricaties : a) /ʃ/: fixo ‘fijo’. b) /ʒ/ (g + e/i, or j): mujer 'mujer', fijo ‘hijo’.
- Las africadas perdieron la oclusión y las sonoras se ensordecieron, por o que en el centro y el norte la dentoalveoalar se adelantó entre los dientes /θ/, y la prepalatal se retrasó al velo /x/. https://www.rae.es/ortograf%C3%ADa/el-seseo-y-el-ceceo?resaltar=prepalatal#I.4.2.1.1
According to DRAE, jinete is borrowed from Andalusian Arabic زَنَاتِي Zenati.
How did /z/ (ز) turn into the current /x/ (خ)? JMGN (talk) 13:22, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
Where did it and the other Wancho letters come from? 213.122.8.21 14:07, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
- Wikipedia knows all and tells all! —Mahāgaja · talk 14:14, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
- What was the letters come from eg: a came from alpha 213.122.8.21 15:52, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
- Apparently, the basic design was thought out by teacher Banwang Losu between 2001 and 2012. I guess we need to find some interviews in where he discusses its design cues. Wakuran (talk) 11:27, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
- What was the letters come from eg: a came from alpha 213.122.8.21 15:52, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
With linking vowel -i-
https://www.rae.es/ortograf%C3%ADa/la-escritura-de-formas-o-expresiones-complejas JMGN (talk) 16:32, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
< phrasal the dull's?
According to the OED:
- suffix colloq. (vɪl) [ad. F. ville town.] A terminal element appended to ns. (which freq. have a pl. suff.) or adjs. to denote: (a) a fictitious place; (b) a particular quality suggested by the word to which it is appended.
In U.S. usage orig. as ― from ―ville.
BTW, Dullsville. JMGN (talk) 17:59, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
< prefix sin-
https://www.rae.es/ortograf%C3%ADa/uso-prefijal-de-la-preposici%C3%B3n-sin JMGN (talk) 20:21, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
augnijaną
We show Proto-Germanic *augnijaną as a weak class 1 verb, and there are credible sources supporting this reconstruction; however, there is the Old High German ouginōn possibly suggesting a Proto-Germanic *auginōną, which could likewise explain the Scandinavian and German forms (?). Should we move *augnijaną to *auginōną ? *auginōną also explains the hypothetical Old Norse *augna whence Middle English aunen. (?) Leasnam (talk) 20:58, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
vice (Latin prep) in place of
< vic- "change, place"? JMGN (talk) 21:00, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
- Sorry, what are you suggesting? (The etymology of vice is explained in the entry, and it is not from vic-.) - -sche (discuss) 16:43, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
- @-sche < ablative of vicis (genitive; not attested in nominative *vix), from the stem vic- (that is, < vicis)
- https://i.imgur.com/T3q1L9x.jpeg JMGN (talk) 16:59, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
Indonesian/Malay "serakah" etymology
Hello, Is Indonesian/Malay word serakah ("greedy") a Sanskrit loanword? Please Yuliadhi (talk) 22:50, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
According to the Longman Pronunciation Dict., AmE /ˈfeɪlændʒɪz/ < plural of phalange. JMGN (talk) 22:58, 1 August 2025 (UTC)
- Not really an etymology issue, but I've separated out the pronunciations of the plural of phalange from the plural of phalanx. —Mahāgaja · talk 06:58, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
Isn't UNO (United Nations Organization) part of it?
< name of letter s es substituting the sibilants? JMGN (talk) 21:09, 2 August 2025 (UTC)
- I don't know if Isaac Pitman has made any explicit statements, but it sounds likely. Wakuran (talk) 00:05, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Wakuran Plus long ess was already taking, LOL. JMGN (talk) 00:22, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
Benacus
https://accademiadellacrusca.it/it/consulenza/b%C3%A8naco-o-benaco/1733 Hefty99 (talk) 10:50, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
According to the OED,
- melli- "honey" < Latin mel(l)- (e.g., in mellic). JMGN (talk) 11:48, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- As -phagous is Greek, it's probably rather the Greek cognate μέλι (meli), instead. If one'd argue that the Greek word couldn't produce a double consonant, I'd say it's rather due to human error. Wakuran (talk) 13:29, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Wakuran Even so, shouldn't we have melli-? JMGN (talk) 14:18, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- meliphagous seems to be the preferred form, but we don't have an entry for meli-, either. Maybe it's not a very productive prefix. Wakuran (talk) 14:35, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Wakuran Compare its synonym mellivorous
- JMGN (talk) 14:44, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- meliphagous seems to be the preferred form, but we don't have an entry for meli-, either. Maybe it's not a very productive prefix. Wakuran (talk) 14:35, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Wakuran Even so, shouldn't we have melli-? JMGN (talk) 14:18, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- Chema: < Che (diminutive of José) + María
- Pepe: hipocoristic of José, from Italian Beppe, diminutive of Giuseppe /dʒuˈsepi/
How did the syllable Che develop fom José (< Joseph /ˈdʒoʊzəf/)? JMGN (talk) 16:57, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- Possibly a similar assimilation as French chuis from je suis. Wakuran (talk) 21:27, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
Cf. Burma (which, btw, I think should be its translation...) JMGN (talk) 19:25, 3 August 2025 (UTC)
- Which language are you talking about? There are 5 different languages listed at Birmania. —Mahāgaja · talk 06:43, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja Exactly. Missing in several, including Spanish. Is there a policy about it? JMGN (talk) 08:36, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
- I don't think there's any policy other than that entries should have etymology sections when the etymology is known. In this case, the general etymology is clear enough: it's Burmese ဗမာ (ba.ma) with the Latinate suffix -ania added. The r suggests it came through English, since it was nonrhotic-speaking English people who decided spell it Burma/Birma even though the native name has no trace of an /r/ there. (There's also no trace of an /r/ at the end of the native name of Myanmar either, it's also a nonrhotic affectation.) So the question is, which Romance-speaking people first adapted the English name to make it look Latinish? I kind of suspect French Birmanie of being the first, but someone would have to look into the earliest attestations of all the Romance names to be sure. —Mahāgaja · talk 08:47, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
- Off-topic, but do we want to collect these cases where r was a device for indicating vowel-quality (or length), not originally pronounced, somewhere? - -sche (discuss) 17:57, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
- I don't think there's any policy other than that entries should have etymology sections when the etymology is known. In this case, the general etymology is clear enough: it's Burmese ဗမာ (ba.ma) with the Latinate suffix -ania added. The r suggests it came through English, since it was nonrhotic-speaking English people who decided spell it Burma/Birma even though the native name has no trace of an /r/ there. (There's also no trace of an /r/ at the end of the native name of Myanmar either, it's also a nonrhotic affectation.) So the question is, which Romance-speaking people first adapted the English name to make it look Latinish? I kind of suspect French Birmanie of being the first, but someone would have to look into the earliest attestations of all the Romance names to be sure. —Mahāgaja · talk 08:47, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Mahagaja Exactly. Missing in several, including Spanish. Is there a policy about it? JMGN (talk) 08:36, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
-n- in Spanish too? Cf. daliniano < Dalí
It is not mentioned: https://dle.rae.es/-ano?m=form JMGN (talk) 08:54, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
< Latin noningentesimus
https://dle.rae.es/noningent%C3%A9simo JMGN (talk) 12:05, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
Probably related to tak, but does there exist some Proto-Slavic term from which these inherit? Insaneguy1083 (talk) 15:45, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
Latin sesqui-
< Latin semis "half" + -que "and"
Spanish < Medieval Latin nonuplus
https://dle.rae.es/n%C3%B3nuplo JMGN (talk) 19:45, 4 August 2025 (UTC)
According to the OED, Latin -plet
http://web.archive.org/web/20200712235407/https://www.oed.com/oed2/00159408 JMGN (talk) 20:06, 4 August 2025 (UTC)