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Wikipedia:Categories for deletion/Log/2006 March 28

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March 28

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Category:United States public land law → Category:United States federal public land legislation

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was no consensous. - TexasAndroid 19:13, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

23 of the 24 current articles in this category are legislation. The other one can easily be recategorized. —Markles 02:43, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • It's likely that eventually articles on court cases interpreting public land laws will be written and categorized, as will articles on state public land laws. The current category would encompass those, along the lines of all the other U.S. area of law categories; make the federal legislation one a subcategory, if you must. Postdlf 02:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Law is broader than legislation, and overcategorization is not necessary. Gene Nygaard 03:10, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Dorama → Category:Japanese television dramas

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 19:12, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Fans generally use this Engrish term to describe Japanese television dramas. Someone renamed the main article several weeks ago. This would bring the category in line with Category:South Korean television drama and others Category:Drama_television_series_by_nationality --Kunzite 01:50, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Comment' eh? ドラマ/dorama is just the transliteration of Drama from English to Japanese and back again. They are both used to describe the same program. It's better to have the meaningful English in this case.--Kunzite 13:36, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Apologies; I meant "Conditional rename". Suggest mention of / link to Dorama made at top of renamed category. Thanks for the insight re the Japanese!  Regards, David Kernow 13:53, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Google test shows "Japanese Drama" is more popular than "Dorama" in English. ドラマ means anything drama in Japanese. Dorama, in English, usually only refers to Japanese Television dramas. "Drama CD / Audio Drama / Radio Drama / Sound Drama" are all used for the audio format. ("Dorama CD", for instance, has 658 articles in google, where as anime "drama CD", a more restricted search, has 248,000.) Would English wiki use "Uesutan" for Japanese programs that take place in the American West? Likely not.
Google test results:
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 258,000 English pages for "japanese drama". (0.32 seconds)
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 141,000 English pages for "dorama". (0.34 seconds)
Personalized Results 1 - 10 of about 52,700 English pages for "jdrama". (0.34 seconds)
Now for Audio drama stuff. I had originally included this argument here, but I edited it out. I translated two or three articles over from Japanese wikipedia on Japanese Audio Dramas. I incorporated that material into the Audio drama article. I've solved the problem of having an "audio drama" article in the category by removing the pittifully small, ultimately useless, "list of Anime audio dramas" from the category. If anyone creates any further articles on audio dramas or incorportated any information on audio drama cds into anime, manga, or other Japanese popular culture articles, the category can be created. Audio dramas get almost no attention in the West because they're hard to translate and have no visual component. Usually Japanese Audio dramas are a promotional item, used mostly for merchandising, or a way to test market a possible anime series, or as a vehicle for seiyuu careers... --Kunzite 01:18, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
In other words, you are shrinking the category down instead of subcategorizing it. So instead of any Japanese Drama, you are restricting it to only Japanese TV dramas. Why don't you just build a subcategory for the tele-dorama, and leave this as a supercategory? You've just lost information that was properly categorized before, since this category is at present still used for all Japanese dramas. In case you've forgotten, GTO is a film, manga, anime, TV-dorama, and audio-dorama. 132.205.44.134 02:29, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
That is not the point. This is a badly named category that needs correction. A super-category and a sub-category can be added later when there is enough content to warrant. And no information has been lost. --Kunzite 03:34, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
A direct rename would end up with Japanese drama not Japanese television drama 132.205.45.110 20:56, 31 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
As the word DORAMA is mainly used for TV dramas, the majority of articles in the category are TV related. The one that was not can be easily re-removed. --Kunzite 04:30, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Columbusites to Category:People from Columbus, Ohio

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 19:07, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

I spent the first 25 years of my life in Columbus and don't believe I've ever seen or heard the term "Columbusite" until seeing it here; I think a good portion of these ridiculous demonym forms were simply made up for these categories, rather than reflecting actual usage.[1] Perhaps more importantly, there are over two dozen other places in the United States called "Columbus"; this is therefore ambiguous, no matter how much more well known Columbus, Ohio is than the others. Postdlf 00:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: Per my comment on Glaswegians below, if this is a recognisable and verifiable demonym, it should be kept. I am not knowledgeable enough on the area to offer an opinion on this one yet. --Cactus.man ✍ 18:36, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Glaswegians to Category:People from Glasgow, Scotland

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Keep. - TexasAndroid 19:05, 5 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Not only will most people not know what the hell a "Glaswegian" is, but there are at least ten Glasgows in the world (see Glasgow (disambiguation)). These cutesy demonym forms are awkward, inobvious, and ambiguous. Postdlf 00:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment. It is standard to a minority of native speakers of English, and confusing as hell to the rest of them and even more so to non-native speakers. There is an unconfusing alternative. Gene Nygaard 02:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • If we were to follow your logic then all category names that use American standards would have to be renamed, as American English speakers constitute a minority of all native English speakers. I presume you are not suggesting this. Valiantis 15:42, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • That doesn't help a bit; where it is likely to be confusing is when you see it listed as a subcategory of its parent categories, or when you see it in the list of categories at the bottom of an article about some person who is listed in that category, and category redirects are not a viable alternative in the latter case--they don't work very well. Gene Nygaard 03:53, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, when I come across what you describe, I simply try searching Wikipedia for the term I don't recognize or understand in another tab or window (or, if needs be, Wiktionary, the rest of the internet or a book). From my experience using Wikipedia thus far, I infer this is what most people do. I – and I believe most people – prefer this kind of appraoch as it means the names of categories, articles, etc aren't overly compromised and I/we also learn something before I/we have even begun exploring the category's contents / begun reading the article / etc. Regards, David Kernow 05:46, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • The issue is less whether Glaswegian is the actual term for someone from Glasgow (one of the few demonym forms where it is), but whether the disadvantages of the demonym form (ambiguous, unclear referent, most communities lack actual demonym forms) when there is a simple alternative, and one that should be made standard across all such categories. I don't think your google search terms are relevant (try this and this instead, if you must), and it's certainly not rare in any form of English to say "X is from Y" instead of "X is Yian." Postdlf 16:05, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hmmm, your Google search terms ("is from Glasgow" and "came from Glasgow") each produce less than 1,000 hits, so this evidence seems to support my position not yours. You may have a point about a general standardisation, but that is not what you proposed. If you want to propose a general standardisation then do so (and I will oppose that too but at least we will be discussing the same thing). FWIW, the form "People from Glasgow, Scotland" (with or without the unnecessary "Scotland") is incorrect in any case as for British places the form "Natives of..." is used a standard (see Category:Scottish people by council area and Category:English people by county). Again FWIW, I think most of the demonyms in, for example, Category:People by British city could perhaps do with renaming to a less obscure form (though I don't feel this strongly), but Glaswegian is one that stands in its own right due to its ubiquity of use. Valiantis 18:36, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename "People from City/Country" is a good standard to adhere to because it eliminates confusion regarding the proper term for people from that locale. The category should definitely mention that the correct term for people from Glasgow is Glaswegians, but for categorization purposes this should be renamed. --NormanEinstein 16:16, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep This is the standard descriptor for someone from Glasgow. --Mais oui! 16:47, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep since we have categories for Aberdonians and Dundonians, as well as Leicesterians, Liverpudlians and Mancunians see Category:People by British city. There may be an arguement that all of these are not obvious to someone not familiar with the UK and so all should be 'people from...' (I'm not sure) but there is not reason to single Glasgow out. --Doc ask? 17:02, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep There may be many other Glasgow's in the world but there is a pre-eminent Glasgow, and it's citizens are known as Glaswegians. There is a Moscow in Scotland, but it is not the Moscow, and it's citizens are not known as Muscovites. As Valiantis points out, the confused reader is only a click away from enlightenment. The same argument for deletion renaming of this category could be applied to Category:Bakersfieldians, or Category:Mobilians, or Category:Yonkersites, or .... ad infinitum. That way lies madness. --Cactus.man ✍ 17:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
    • This was for renaming, not deletion; those should be renamed too. Perhaps I should have done a mass listing for renaming all of them at once? Postdlf 17:53, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
      • Yes, my mistake, I fully understand that it was for renaming but, alas, my brain was not fully engaged with my two typing fingers :-( The examples I gave were just but 3 random samples plucked from Category:American_people_by_city. There are probably several thousands of similar examples across Wikipedia covering many, many countries. My point was, if this argument applies to Glaswegians it should apply to all the others, therein lies the ensuing madness. For that reason I say that if a recognisable and verifiable local demonym exists, then it is valid and should be kept. After all, it can only enlighten us all, which is the main purpose of this fine endeavour. --Cactus.man ✍ 18:26, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
        • Glaswegian aside, even assuming that the other demonym forms are verifiable as coming from actual usage (which I doubt; see "Columbusite" above), that still leaves the problem of ambiguity. Postdlf 18:33, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
          • See my Columbusites post above. The current Category:Glaswegians page states: This page contain the biographies of Glaswegians: people who are from Glasgow, Scotland. I'm not sure where there can be any ambiguity. --Cactus.man ✍ 18:49, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
            • The ambiguity is in the category name, which applies to anyone from any Glasgow in the world. A category description can't cure that because it doesn't show up wherever the category name does (at the bottom of articles, as subcategories). That's the whole reason why abbreviations and acronyms have been disfavored in category names and systematically removed; sure, you could click through to find out what it means, but the category name itself has to be clear and unambiguous. Postdlf 21:01, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep the Weegies, sorry "Glaswegians". --MacRusgail 18:08, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I knew I was a Glaswegian in Primary One (age 4). (I may have regretted it since, but that's life.) It is the standard term and it is not the place of Wikipedia to re-invent some fictive "ought" to replace the "is". AllyD 18:56, 29 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • comment. there seems to be a usage difference here between Commonwealth Englishes and American English. demonyms exist in both but Americans seem not to use them, with some notable exceptions both with the demonyms themselves (New Yorkers, Chicagoans) and with individuals and they re wish to use them. outside of the States people seem to generally prefer them but again with some exceptions, such as the cities of Leeds and Birmingham, although they seem to have common colloquial terms but not standard formal ones. Mayumashu 04:02, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep as people from Glasgow are Glaswegians, and other cities use a similar format. Mattbr30 22:11, 30 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. I won't belabor the discussion. — Dale Arnett 04:02, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, but what's the adjective for people from Edinburgh? I am one and I don't even know. Edinburghers? Deizio 11:13, 1 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]
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Category:Autonomous Oblasts of Russia to Category:Autonomous oblasts of Russia

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Merge. - TexasAndroid 16:50, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Two duplicate categories. I think the lowercase should stay because it refers to autonomous oblasts as a whole. (The fact that there's only one autonomous oblast in Russia complicates the things, though :) Conscious 13:05, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:U.S. House of Representatives elections to Category:United States House of Representatives elections

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The result of the debate was moved to speedy renames. Syrthiss 19:51, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

U.S. -> United States. —Markles 11:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]


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Category:Roman emperors (murdered, predecessor also murdered)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Delete. - TexasAndroid 16:48, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

The name is awkward and the point is too detailed to be made by a category. Delete Hawkestone 10:27, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Historic houses in Virginia to Category:Houses in Virginia

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the category above. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the category's talk page (if any). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was Rename. - TexasAndroid 16:47, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rename to match the other state-level subcategories of Category:Houses in the United States. - EurekaLott 05:22, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:NWFP Politicians to Category:NWFP politicians

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The result of the debate was Rename to Category:North-West Frontier Province politicians. - TexasAndroid 16:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Duplicate categories (differing in capitilization). -- JLaTondre 02:43, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category:Unix successors

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The result of the debate was Delete. - TexasAndroid 16:41, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Came across this one marked as {{delete}} and decided to move it here. The reason given on the talk page is that this is much better covered by the UNIX category. No vote — Laura Scudder ☎ 04:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category: Software engineering disasters

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The result of the debate was No consensous. - TexasAndroid 16:43, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

As above, came across it tagged as a speedy. Reason given is that it's POV. No vote — Laura Scudder ☎ 04:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category: Software engineering success stories

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The result of the debate was Already deleted. - TexasAndroid 16:39, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Same as above. No vote — Laura Scudder ☎ 04:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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Category: Greek poker players

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The result of the debate was Keep. - TexasAndroid 16:40, 4 April 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Was marked speedy because it only had two articles in it. No vote — Laura Scudder ☎ 04:48, 28 March 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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