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Latest comment: 13 hours ago by JackofOz in topic Metric units in different countries
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August 19
editKyan - wine? spirit?
edit_LACMA_M.62.41.14f.jpg)
The image to the right shows a "bottle ticket" with the label reading "Kyan". A "bottle ticket", I've learned, is a small plaque hung around the neck of a decanter, which explains what wine or spirit has been decanted into said. This one was made by John Emes around the start of the 19th century. None of the articles listed at Kyan seems at all relevant. The name isn't unique to this label (I found this antique, for example). So my questions:
- Do we have a relevant article for "bottle ticket" (there's a passing mention in wine label, which seems to be the same thing, but may be another name for the paper label)?
- What kind of beverage is/was Kyan?
Thanks soberly -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 11:50, 19 August 2025 (UTC)
- With regard to question 2, these sites (and a couple of other such sites I found) say that the bottle ticket went on a cruet rather than a decanter and that KYAN means "cayenne". Whether it was in sauce form or in powdered form is unclear. Deor (talk) 13:48, 19 August 2025 (UTC)
- It would have been a sauce. The images here and here show cruets bearing the text KYAN that cannot have been intended for dispensing powdered cayenne. The following text, a quotation in a book review, is explicit about cruet frames having pepper casters separate from the cruets, including a kyan-ticketed cruet:
- “At about this time began the half-century vogue of soy [sauce] as a relish with food. Soy was described in 1776 as ‘a sauce as thick as treacle, and of a clear black colour.’ It was prepared from the beans of the soja hispida and salt mixed with ground barley or wheat. This created a demand for special soy frames complete with silver-mounted cut-glass bottles hung by silver bottle tickets on chains. Such a cruet frame might contain six to ten sauce bottles and a pair of pepper casters. The bottle tickets might number many more than the bottles, each being named differently, such as soy, catsup, anchovy, lemon, tarragon, kyan, chili vin and so on.”[1]
- ‑‑Lambiam 09:18, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
- It would have been a sauce. The images here and here show cruets bearing the text KYAN that cannot have been intended for dispensing powdered cayenne. The following text, a quotation in a book review, is explicit about cruet frames having pepper casters separate from the cruets, including a kyan-ticketed cruet:
- Thanks for the Kyan part (thinking out of the box, it didn't occur to me that it wouldn't be a drink). I've added a link to cayenne pepper from the Kyan dab, but I don't think I can edit the cayenne pepper article to give it as an alternate (or archaic) title, as these sources, while clear enough, probably don't quite cut the WP:RS mustard.sorry -- Finlay McWalter··–·Talk 09:56, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
August 20
editFace tattoo
edit[2] Is that a gang member thing, or does the guy think he's Darth Maul, or what? I mean the tattoo. Never mind the murder charge for now. The tattoo is bad enough by itself. 2601:644:8581:75B0:32D2:3FE3:F454:37FE (talk) 08:54, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
- I think a gang tattoo in the US would not include such uncool egghead-type eyeglasses. For the rest, there is no accounting for taste, and the First Amendment protects even this expression. ‑‑Lambiam 09:43, 20 August 2025 (UTC)
- The "BK" might be Blood (as in the gang) killer. Crossing it out adds to the disrespect. Laser tattoo removal is expensive and painful. Polygnotus (talk) 00:46, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
August 21
editdrunk and obnoxious
edit[3] Leaving aside the assistant state attorney general news hook, the story is about some lady getting drunk and obnoxious in a restaurant, refusing to leave, and getting dragged out by the cops, creating a noisy temporary disturbance but no serious damage or violence etc.
Where does this land on the scale of things? Is it something every working bartender sees play out a dozen times a week? A dozen times a year? Once in a great while? I guess we don't have drunk tanks in the US any more, but I imagine them being a standard presence in the settings of cowboy movies, even if they didn't figure into the movie.
I was once present at a scene that might have ended like this (someone I was with got drunk and loud). I got the person to leave peacefully, but I got the impression that the waitstaff was well experienced with these situations. 2601:644:8581:75B0:427:5A43:69D2:AD22 (talk) 02:50, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
- Being obnoxious is not a crime. Public intoxication is prohibited by law in some US states (not in Rhode Island), but any judge or jury would almost certainly dismiss the charge if the defendant's disorderly behaviour remained confined to a booze-dispensing facility. This is a different issue. The arrestee refused to leave, which is criminal trespass, a rather more severe crime than being drunk in public. In RI, willful trespass is a misdemeanor that can be punished by up to one year of imprisonment, a fine of up to $1,000, or both.[4] The case mainly drew attention because of the entitled behaviour, but a judge may find it more striking that a prosecutor should know better. ‑‑Lambiam 11:47, 21 August 2025 (UTC)
Is it something every working bartender sees play out a dozen times a week? A dozen times a year? Once in a great while?
That depends on where that bartender works. In some places, such a scenario would almost never happen. Polygnotus (talk) 13:48, 21 August 2025 (UTC)- It's actually a fascinating question. When I worked in a bar in SF, it was pretty rare. The only time we ever had any kind of problem at all was during Fleet Week, when some members of the military would drink a bit too much and get aggressive. Otherwise, we rarely had any problems. This appears, on the other hand, to be out of character compared to other places, such as Sixth Street in Texas, where bar fights are so common and sensationalized that YouTubers have made a career out of filming them. Viriditas (talk) 01:32, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- We have an article, Public intoxication, which describes the legal restrictions in various countries. In England, we have the wonderful charge of being "drunk and disorderly"; it is also an offence to sell alcohol to a drunken person, although the exact definition of "drunk" is a bit subjective. Alansplodge (talk)
August 23
editWild bird eggs as food
editHistorically, many human populations have consumed large numbers of wild bird eggs (see e.g. our article on gull eggs). My understanding is that, unlike chickens, wild birds generally lay fertilised eggs only. Does this mean that all eggs sourced from the wild contain embryonic chicks? If so, are the embryos eaten or discarded? Zacwill (talk) 06:04, 23 August 2025 (UTC)
- If the egg is collected for human consumption shortly after being laid, there would be no visible embryo. As for eating embryonic chicks, consuming duck embryos is popular in the Phillipines and several other Southeast Asian countries. See Balut (food) for details. Cullen328 (talk) 06:13, 23 August 2025 (UTC)
- Supposing I were foraging for seabird eggs on a cliffside, as St Kildans used to do, how would I know how old the eggs were? Zacwill (talk) 06:27, 23 August 2025 (UTC)
- You could weigh them; eggs lose mass as the embryo develops. The usual trick is to put the egg in water and see whether it floats or sinks. PiusImpavidus (talk) 08:35, 23 August 2025 (UTC)
- Supposing I were foraging for seabird eggs on a cliffside, as St Kildans used to do, how would I know how old the eggs were? Zacwill (talk) 06:27, 23 August 2025 (UTC)
- Fwiw, chickens kept on small farms rather than factory farms are typically kept with roosters in the mix (they help protect the flock, and are raised to be eaten as well). So until very recently, almost everyone who kept chickens would have had a rooster to fertilize the eggs. So most farmed eggs, too, would have had embryos in them. (Fertilized eggs do also sometimes occur in factory farmed eggs, since chick sexing is an inexact art, and occasionally a rooster makes it into the barn with the hens.)
- As mentioned by others, the embryo is microscopic for the first few days after laying; and unless temperatures stay within a fairly narrow range, the embryo in an egg removed from the nest will quickly stop developing and die for lack of warmth or due to overheating. -- Avocado (talk) 02:20, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
August 24
editWeek numbers
editHow common is it worldwide to base recurring events on ISO weeks? In Finland, for example, the autumn break of the school year is at week 42 in some areas and at week 43 in others, the spring break is at week 8, 9 or 10 depending on ___location, school year ends on Saturday of week 22 everywhere, and Helsinki region public transport switches to summer timetables on Monday of week 25 and to winter timetables on Monday of week 33. Is there any other country that does similar? --40bus (talk) 21:27, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
- I can speak with respect to Poland and Germany that week numbers are primarily used in commerce and industry to determine when certain goods are to be delivered or services rendered, with an example being a contractual obligation to deliver say in week 34 of 2025, with the specific day and time to be decided on when this week looms closer, or in project planning. Outside of that the week numbers go rather unnoticed. This was asked before. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:26, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- On 15 February 2025 the user asked whether most English speakers know ISO week numbers, and on 20 July 2025 they asked whether any English-speaking country presents calendars with ISO week numbers. This question has a worldwide scope and, unlike the earlier ones, is specifically about their use for recurrent events. ‑‑Lambiam 10:48, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- Week numbers are rarely used in Australia. HiLo48 (talk) 11:28, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- On 15 February 2025 the user asked whether most English speakers know ISO week numbers, and on 20 July 2025 they asked whether any English-speaking country presents calendars with ISO week numbers. This question has a worldwide scope and, unlike the earlier ones, is specifically about their use for recurrent events. ‑‑Lambiam 10:48, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
Metric units in different countries
edit- Are following measured in metric units in UK:
- Floor area
- Elevation
- Heights of mountains
- Area of administrative divisions
- Water depth
- Length of things
- Depth of soil
- Size of sporting fields
- Train height, length and weight
- Are depth of soil, size of sporting fields, crop area, height of statues and size of license plates measured in metric units in Canada?
- Are floor area, elevation, area of administrative divisions, person's height and size of sporting fields measured in metric units in Philippines?
- In which countries is aircraft and ship speed measured in km/h rather than knots?
- In which countries are marine navigation distances more commonly measured in kilometers rather than nautical miles?
- Is length of flights and long-distance ship routes usually measured in kilometers worldwide? --40bus (talk) 21:58, 24 August 2025 (UTC)
- Size of license plates? Canada is a free country; you're allowed to measure anything you want in whatever units you want. Everything you listed would be described in metric (almost always with a US-ian conversion, like here) by most writers. In informal writing and speech, you're more likely to encounter US-ian units as the primary descriptor, especially among older Canadians. Sorry, I'm just boggled by this: do people in your country routinely measure license plates for some reason? In Canada, they're all standard size and provided by the government. Matt Deres (talk) 14:22, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- Do you routinely measure anything listed in questions 1 or 2? If Canadian license plates are a standard size, I imagine the standard is described somewhere using a specific metric. 207.11.240.2 (talk) 11:48, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
- Do I measure areas and heights? Yes, of course I do, but the more important distinction is that heights and areas for different items are variable, so there is a basic desire to quantify them - if not every day, then at least sometimes. But nobody measures license plates precisely because they are inflexible. Their size is described (and prescribed ) in the article I linked. What I suppose was meant was something more like "Would you use metric units when measuring items small enough to hold in your hands, but not so tiny that you'd need a microscope to see them?" In English, the prototypical "breadbox" might be used, but I've heard that breadboxes are falling out of favour with the younger crowd. Matt Deres (talk) 17:25, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- Do you routinely measure anything listed in questions 1 or 2? If Canadian license plates are a standard size, I imagine the standard is described somewhere using a specific metric. 207.11.240.2 (talk) 11:48, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
- 1.3. Lists of mountains and hills in the British Isles is categorized mostly (but not exclusively) in Imperial units, so that's a 'sometimes'. -- Verbarson talkedits 17:56, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- Size of license plates? Canada is a free country; you're allowed to measure anything you want in whatever units you want. Everything you listed would be described in metric (almost always with a US-ian conversion, like here) by most writers. In informal writing and speech, you're more likely to encounter US-ian units as the primary descriptor, especially among older Canadians. Sorry, I'm just boggled by this: do people in your country routinely measure license plates for some reason? In Canada, they're all standard size and provided by the government. Matt Deres (talk) 14:22, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- Regarding 4) and 5), this depends on ___location for Europe. On sea, velocities are generally measured in knots, distances in nautical miles. However, the signage on inland channels in Europe tends to be in km and km/h. So for 6), long distance shipping routes (which tend to go on sea) are generally measured in nautical miles. I suppose the IMO regulates how this is applied. For aerospace, that's also regulated, and I guess that it's all in nautical miles and kts. It helps that 60 nautical miles is one degree (in latitude, degrees in longitude change with latitude). Rmvandijk (talk) 08:15, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- For 6 and long distance ship routes a resounding no, it's nautical miles, and by the by, speed in knots as the knot is based on the NM not the km. --Ouro (blah blah) 08:29, 25 August 2025 (UTC)
- Inland waterways on the European continent are metric. The UK is a mixed bag. The Canal and River Trust (the organisation managing most of the British inland waterways) tells me that the speed limit on the narrow canals is 4 mph, on the non-tidal River Thames 8 km/h and on the River Medway 5 knots (for comparison: the speed limit on most Dutch canals is 20 km/h).
- Aviation on the European continent used to be fully metric (every country had metricated before aviation really took off), but after 1945 some British–American units were introduced: knots for speed (instead of km/h), feet for height (instead of metres), feet per minute for vertical speed (instead of m/s), nautical miles for horizontal distance (instead of km) (but visibility and airport dimensions are still metric; note that in American aviation visibility is expressed in statute miles, not nautical miles). Gliders, ultralights and the Soviet Union stayed metric. PiusImpavidus (talk) 12:01, 26 August 2025 (UTC)
- Interesting that the definitions of speeds in the inland waterways is so varied in the UK. I understand mph and kts as they are either the local or international standard.
- For dutch canals, that 20 km/h speed limit suprises me, since I know that the local speed limit is mostly 12 km/h as indicated by signage (except in port areas where it is either 6 or 9). I guess I never paid that much attention since the boats I sail on are hard pressed to even reach those 12 km/h (on motor). Rmvandijk (talk) 10:02, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- I suppose those posted limits are local speed limits. Where no local limit applies, the default is 20 km/h. From my experience riding a bike along the Maal-Waalkanaal (I used to live in the area), a bike is slightly faster than a ship – a 1500 tonne freighter, that is. PiusImpavidus (talk) 19:12, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- I suppose there's a physics reason for this. Airy wave theory tells us that the angular frequency of a surface wave is related to the wave number , the gravity and the water depth as , which means that in the English narrow canals, which are only about 95 cm deep, the maximum phase speed for waves is only 11 km/h, so that a boat, even an infinitely long one, will reach its hull speed at most at that speed. Approaching the hull speed not only takes enormous power, but also produces waves that damage the banks. Dutch canals are much deeper. The hull speed in deep water depends on the length at the waterline and gravity as , so that even in deep water the hull speed of a 7 metre long boat won't get above 12 km/h. For a 100 metre freighter, that's 45 km/h, so those get limited by water depth. The maximum phase speed of waves in a 4.5 metre deep canal (typical for commercially important canals) is 24 km/h. 20 km/h is perfect for them, just before the point were drags begins to increase much faster. PiusImpavidus (talk) 20:10, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- I suppose those posted limits are local speed limits. Where no local limit applies, the default is 20 km/h. From my experience riding a bike along the Maal-Waalkanaal (I used to live in the area), a bike is slightly faster than a ship – a 1500 tonne freighter, that is. PiusImpavidus (talk) 19:12, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- 1.4. All administrative areas in the UK are measured in hectares, as shown here. Mikenorton (talk) 09:47, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- 1.1. Floor areas are normally quoted in both metric and imperial units.
- 1.2. & 1.3. Elevations are in metric on anything derived from the ordnance survey, although imperial units are widely used unofficially.
- 1.5. Official water depths are metric.
- 1.6. The lengths of almost everything you buy in the UK are measured in metric units, although many people still use imperial units. Road distances and speed limits are, however, all in miles.
- 1.7. Soil depths are normally quoted in centimetres/metres, certainly in anything technical.
- 1.8. Sport fields are mostly in imperial units, e.g. the football association specifications, for football pitches are in yards.
- 1.9. Train specifications are in metric.
- A caveat, it's difficult to get definitive answers to some of these, e.g. 1.1, this is just a result of looking at properties for sale/rent on popular websites. Mikenorton (talk) 10:46, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- Note that the nautical mile is has been exactly 1,852 metres since 1929, rather than 6,080 feet used previously, so there is an element of metrication there.
- As regards sports, Rugby Union pitches have been measured in metres since 1976. [5] Rugby league pitches are also metric. However, the dimensions of a cricket field remain Imperial, although there are metric equivalents. Running tracks in the UK have been 400 metres since the 1970s (previously 440 yards), but the mile run of 1,760 yards or 1,610 metres is still a thing and marked on many tracks.
- Alansplodge (talk) 12:15, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- We're virtually totally metricated in Australia now but, as I've mentioned here before, newborn babies are always announced as so many pounds and ounces weight, and so many feet and inches long. (It's a terrible thing to confuse a child at such a tender age, but they gotta learn early that life isn't meant to be easy.) -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:39, 30 August 2025 (UTC)
August 28
editThe Martian (film)
editI just rewatched The Martian for the first time in ten years. I had previously read the 2011 book. The copy I just watched appeared to be of a much higher quality than the previous one, and I noticed for the first time that botanist Mark Watney appeared to be suffering from the symptoms of scurvy in several scenes, something I had never noticed in my previous viewing, nor do I recall it in the book. Has this been mentioned by anyone? Viriditas (talk) 01:22, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Viriditas Yes, googling "Mark Watney" +SCURVY returns several results. For example https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/104554/what-are-the-marks-lesions-on-mark-watneys-body Although potatoes contain decent amounts of vitamin C so it may be unrealistic/something other than scurvy. https://www.livescience.com/52438-the-martian-potatoes-health-effects.html Polygnotus (talk) 03:41, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- Upon further examination of this problem, it appears that I viewed "The Martian Extended Cut" which contains 10 additional minutes, which explains why I don't remember this scene from the first time I saw the film. Other respondents indicate that the additional footage changes the film in a completely different way. I found that it was a vast improvement over the original. Viriditas (talk) 08:06, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Viriditas If you enjoyed it I recommend Cody's lab, specifically the Chickenhole base series. Polygnotus (talk) 08:07, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- Thank you. I've been mostly watching Veritasium these days. Viriditas (talk) 09:17, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- @Viriditas If you enjoyed it I recommend Cody's lab, specifically the Chickenhole base series. Polygnotus (talk) 08:07, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- Upon further examination of this problem, it appears that I viewed "The Martian Extended Cut" which contains 10 additional minutes, which explains why I don't remember this scene from the first time I saw the film. Other respondents indicate that the additional footage changes the film in a completely different way. I found that it was a vast improvement over the original. Viriditas (talk) 08:06, 28 August 2025 (UTC)