Talk:Freemasonry and Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub types/Geography: Difference between pages

Revision as of 15:32, 22 February 2006

Revision as of 07:46, 12 July 2007

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===Geography===

{{featured}}

====General geography====

{{farc}}

*'''[[:Category:Geography stubs|Geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Geo-stub}}

{{Controversial3}}

*'''[[:Category:Geographical term stubs|Geographical term stubs]]''' {{tl|Geo-term-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cartography stubs|Cartography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Cartography-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Topography stubs|Topography stubs]]''' {{tl|Topography-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Oceanography stubs|Oceanography stubs]]''' {{tl|Ocean-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Marine geography stubs|Marine geography stubs]]''' {{tl|marine-geo-stub}}

====Ecoregions and protected areas====

'''''Please note there is a scratchpad for this talk-page at [[Talk:Freemasonry/Scratchpad]] that may contain proposed changes'''''

*'''[[:Category:Ecoregion stubs|Ecoregion stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Ecoregion-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Protected area stubs|Protected area stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Protected areas |*W]] | {{tl|Protected-area-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:British Columbia protected area stubs|British Columbia protected area stubs]]''' {{tl|BritishColumbia-protected-area-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Florida protected area stubs|Florida protected area stubs]]''' {{tl|Florida-protected-area-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Montana protected area stubs|Montana protected area stubs]]''' {{tl|Montana-protected-area-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Queensland protected area stubs|Queensland protected area stubs]]''' {{tl|Queensland-protected-area-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United States National Park Service stubs|United States National Park Service stubs]]''' {{tl|US-NationalParkService-stub}}

***<small>{{tl|Yosemite-stub}} feeds into this category</small>

====Buildings and structures====

{| class="infobox" width="270px"

*<small>''Use {{tl|struct-stub}}for SPECIFIC buildings/structures; ''</small>

|-

*<small>''Use {{tl|architecture-stub}} for building/structure TYPES, features and architecture vocab.''</small>

!align="center" colspan="2"|[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]<br/>[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|Archives]]

*'''[[:Category:Building and structure stubs|Building and structure stubs]]''' {{tl|struct-stub}}

----

**'''[[:Category:Architecture stubs|Architecture stubs]]''' [[:Category:Architect stubs|*B]] | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|architecture-stub}}

|-

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 1|Archive 1]]

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 2|Archive 2]]

|-

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 3|Archive 3]]

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 4|Archive 4]]

|-

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 5|Archive 5]]

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 6|Archive 6]]

|-

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 7|Archive 7]]

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 8|Archive 8]]

|-

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 9|Archive 9]]

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 10|Archive 10]]

|-

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 11|Archive 11]]

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 12|Archive 12]]

|-

|[[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive 13|Archive 13]]

|}<!--Template:Archivebox-->

=====By ___location=====

*'''[[:Category:African building and structure stubs|African building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Africa-struct-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Asian building and structure stubs|Asian building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Asia-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Indian building and structure stubs|Indian building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|India-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Japanese building and structure stubs|Japanese building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Japan-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Middle Eastern building and structure stubs|Middle Eastern building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|MEast-struct-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Canadian building and structure stubs|Canadian building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Canada-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Canadian bridge (structure) stubs|Canadian bridge (structure) stubs]]''' - {{tl|Canada-bridge-struct-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:European building and structure stubs|European building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Euro-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Danish building and structure stubs|Danish building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Denmark-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:French building and structure stubs|French building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|France-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:German building and structure stubs|German building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Germany-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Irish building and structure stubs|Irish building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Ireland-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Italian building and structure stubs|Italian building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Italy-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Norwegian building and structure stubs|Norwegian building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Norway-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:People's Republic of China building and structure stubs|People's Republic of China building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|PRC-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hong Kong building and structure stubs|Hong Kong building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|HongKong-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Spanish building and structure stubs|Spanish building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Spain-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Swedish building and structure stubs|Swedish building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Sweden-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United Kingdom building and structure stubs|United Kingdom building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|UK-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:United Kingdom bridge (structure) stubs|United Kingdom bridge (structure) stubs]]''' - {{tl|UK-bridge-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:London building and structure stubs|London building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|London-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Merseyside building and structure stubs|Merseyside building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Merseyside-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Scottish building and structure stubs|Scottish building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Scotland-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Welsh building and structure stubs|Welsh building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Wales-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:West Midlands building and structure stubs|West Midlands building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|WestMidlands-struct-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Oceanian building and structure stubs|Oceanian building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Oceania-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Australian building and structure stubs|Australian building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Australia-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New Zealand building and structure stubs|New Zealand building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|NZ-struct-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:United States building and structure stubs|United States building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|US-struct-stub}}

**<small>you can use <nowiki>{{</nowiki>''StateName''-struct-stub}} for any state</small>

**'''[[:Category:United States bridge (structure) stubs|United States bridge (structure) stubs]]''' - {{tl|US-bridge-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United States mall stubs|United States mall stubs]]''' - {{tl|US-mall-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United States power station stubs|United States power station stubs]]''' - {{tl|US-powerstation-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United States sports venue stubs|United States sports venue stubs]]''' - {{tl|US-sports-venue-stub}}

***<small>you can use <nowiki>{{</nowiki>''StateName''-sports-venue-stub}} for any state</small>

***'''[[:Category:Midwestern United States sports venue stubs|Midwestern United States sports venue stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Northeastern United States sports venue stubs|Northeastern United States sports venue stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Southern United States sports venue stubs|Southern United States sports venue stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Western United States sports venue stubs|Western United States sports venue stubs]]'''

**'''[[:Category:Midwestern United States building and structure stubs|Midwestern United States building and structure stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Illinois building and structure stubs|Illinois building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Illinois-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Indiana building and structure stubs|Indiana building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Indiana-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Iowa building and structure stubs|Iowa building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Iowa-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kansas building and structure stubs|Kansas building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kansas-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Michigan building and structure stubs|Michigan building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Michigan-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Minnesota building and structure stubs|Minnesota building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Minnesota-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Missouri building and structure stubs|Missouri building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Missouri-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ohio building and structure stubs|Ohio building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Ohio-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Wisconsin building and structure stubs|Wisconsin building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Wisconsin-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Northeastern United States building and structure stubs|Northeastern United States building and structure stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Connecticut building and structure stubs|Connecticut building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Connecticut-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Massachusetts building and structure stubs|Massachusetts building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Massachusetts-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New Jersey building and structure stubs|New Jersey building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewJersey-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New York building and structure stubs|New York building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewYork-struct-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:New York City building and structure stubs|New York City building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|NYC-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Pennsylvania building and structure stubs|Pennsylvania building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Pennsylvania-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Southern United States building and structure stubs|Southern United States building and structure stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Alabama building and structure stubs|Alabama building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Alabama-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Florida building and structure stubs|Florida building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Florida-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Georgia (U.S. state) building and structure stubs|Georgia (U.S. state) building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|GeorgiaUS-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kentucky building and structure stubs|Kentucky building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kentucky-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Louisiana building and structure stubs|Louisiana building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Louisiana-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Maryland building and structure stubs|Maryland building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Maryland-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:North Carolina building and structure stubs|North Carolina building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|NorthCarolina-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Carolina building and structure stubs|South Carolina building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|SouthCarolina-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tennessee building and structure stubs|Tennessee building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Tennessee-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Texas building and structure stubs|Texas building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Texas-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Virginia building and structure stubs|Virginia building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Virginia-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Western United States building and structure stubs|Western United States building and structure stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Arizona building and structure stubs|Arizona building and structure stubs]]''' {{tl|Arizona-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Californian building and structure stubs|California building and structure stubs]]''' {{tl|California-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Colorado building and structure stubs|Colorado building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Colorado-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oregon building and structure stubs|Oregon building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Oregon-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nevada building and structure stubs|Nevada building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Nevada-struct-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Washington building and structure stubs|Washington building and structure stubs]]''' - {{tl|Washington-struct-stub}}

=====By building use or type=====

*'''[[:Category:Bridge (structure) stubs|Bridge (structure) stubs]]''' - {{tl|bridge-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Canadian bridge (structure) stubs|Canadian bridge (structure) stubs]]''' - {{tl|Canada-bridge-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United Kingdom bridge (structure) stubs|United Kingdom bridge (structure) stubs]]''' - {{tl|UK-bridge-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United States bridge (structure) stubs|United States bridge (structure) stubs]]''' - {{tl|US-bridge-struct-stub}}

*<small>{{tl|Library-stub}} See listing in the [[#Other sciences|other sciences]] section</small>

*'''[[:Category:Mast stubs|Mast stubs]]''' {{tl|Mast-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Museum stubs|Museum stubs]]''' {{tl|Museum-stub}}

**<small>Children under {{cl|Museum stubs}} in [[#Other culture|Other culture]]</small>

*'''[[:Category:Prison stubs|Prison stubs]]''' - {{tl|prison-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Australian prison stubs|Australian prison stubs]]''' - {{tl|Australia-prison-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Pub stubs|Pub stubs]]''' {{tl|Pub-stub}}

*'''Railway stations and train depots'''

**'''[[:Category:United Kingdom railway station stubs|United Kingdom railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|UK-railstation-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:London railway station stubs|London railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|London-railstation-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South East England railway station stubs|South East England railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthEastEngland-railstation-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South West England railway station stubs|South West England railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthWestEngland-railstation-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:West Midlands railway station stubs|West Midlands railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|WestMidlands-railstation-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Northern Ireland railway station stubs|Northern Ireland railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|NI-railstation-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Scotland railway station stubs|Scotland railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|Scotland-railstation-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Wales railway station stubs|Wales railway station stubs]]''' {{tl|Wales-railstation-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United States train station stubs|United States train station stubs]]''' {{tl|US-railstation-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Religious building and structure stubs|Religious building and structure stubs]]''' {{tl|Reli-struct-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Church stubs|Church stubs]]''' {{tl|Church-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:United Kingdom church stubs|United Kingdom church stubs]]''' {{tl|UK-church-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Hindu temple stubs|Hindu temple stubs]]''' {{tl|Hindu-temple-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Mosque stubs|Mosque stubs]]''' {{tl|Mosque-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Synagogue stubs|Synagogue stubs]]''' {{tl|Synagogue-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Sports venue stubs|Sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Sports-venue-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ice hockey venue stubs|Ice hockey venue stubs]]''' {{tl|icehockey-venue-stub}}

**''by ___location''

**'''[[:Category:United States sports venue stubs|United States sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|US-sports-venue-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:African sports venue stubs|African sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Africa-sports-venue-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Asian sports venue stubs|Asian sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Asia-sports-venue-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Japanese sports venue stubs|Japan sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Japan-sports-venue-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:European sports venue stubs|European sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Euro-sports-venue-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:French sports venue stubs|French sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|France-sports-venue-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:German sports venue stubs|German sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Germany-sports-venue-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Italian sports venue stubs|Italy sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Italy-sports-venue-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Spanish sports venue stubs|Spanish sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Spain-sports-venue-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:United Kingdom sports venue stubs|United Kingdom sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|UK-sports-venue-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Oceanian sports venue stubs|Oceanian sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|Oceania-sports-venue-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:South American sports venue stubs|South American sports venue stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthAm-sports-venue-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Theater (structure) stubs|Theater (structure) stubs]]''' {{tl|theat-struct-stub}}

====Location-specific general stubs====

= Discussion =

=====Africa=====

*<small>''most categories have geo-children in [[#African_geography|African geography]]''</small>

*'''[[:Category:Africa stubs|Africa stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|African people}} | {{tl|Africa-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Algeria stubs|Algeria stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Algerian people}} | {{tl|Algeria-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Angola stubs|Angola stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Angolan people}} | {{tl|Angola-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Benin stubs|Benin stubs]]''' {{tl|Benin-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Botswana stubs|Botswana stubs]]''' {{tl|Botswana-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Burkina Faso stubs|Burkina Faso stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Burkinabé people}} | {{tl|BurkinaFaso-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Burundi stubs|Burundi stubs]]''' {{tl|Burundi-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cape Verde stubs|Cape Verde stubs]]''' {{tl|CapeVerde-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cameroon stubs|Cameroon stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Cameroonian people}} {{tl|Cameroon-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Central African Republic stubs|Central African Republic stubs]]''' {{tl|CentralAfricanRepublic-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Chad stubs|Chad stubs]]''' {{tl|Chad-stub}} <small>{{tl|Chad-bio-stub}} also feeds into this category</small>

**'''[[:Category:Comoros stubs|Comoros stubs]]''' {{tl|Comoros-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Côte d'Ivoire stubs|Côte d'Ivoire stubs]]''' {{tl|Coted'Ivoire-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo stubs|Democratic Republic of the Congo stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|People of the Democratic Republic of the Congo}} | {{tl|DRCongo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Djibouti stubs|Djibouti stubs]]''' {{tl|Djibouti-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Egypt stubs|Egypt stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Egyptian people}} | {{tl|Egypt-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Equatorial Guinea stubs|Equatorial Guinea stubs]]''' {{tl|EquatorialGuinea-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Eritrea stubs|Eritrea stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Eritrean people}} | {{tl|Eritrea-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ethiopia stubs|Ethiopia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Ethiopian people}} | {{tl|Ethiopia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Gabon stubs|Gabon stubs]]''' {{tl|Gabon-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:The Gambia stubs|The Gambia stubs]]''' {{tl|Gambia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ghana stubs|Ghana stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Ghanaian people}} | {{tl|Ghana-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Guinea stubs|Guinea stubs]]''' {{tl|Guinea-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Guinea-Bissau stubs|Guinea-Bissau stubs]]''' {{tl|GuineaBissau-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Kenya stubs|Kenya stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Kenyan people}} {{tl|Kenya-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Lesotho stubs|Lesotho stubs]]''' {{tl|Lesotho-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Liberia stubs|Liberia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Liberian people}} | {{tl|Liberia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Libya stubs|Libya stubs]]''' {{tl|Libya-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Madagascar stubs|Madagascar stubs]]''' {{tl|Madagascar-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Malawi stubs|Malawi stubs]]''' {{tl|Malawi-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Mali stubs|Mali stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Malian people}} | {{tl|Mali-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Mauritania stubs|Mauritania stubs]]''' {{tl|Mauritania-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Mauritius stubs|Mauritius stubs]]''' {{tl|Mauritius-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Morocco stubs|Morocco stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Moroccan people}} | {{tl|Morocco-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Mozambique stubs|Mozambique stubs]]''' {{tl|Mozambique-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Namibia stubs|Namibia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Namibian people}} | {{tl|Namibia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Niger stubs|Niger stubs]]''' {{tl|Niger-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nigeria stubs|Nigeria stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Nigerian people}} | {{tl|Nigeria-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Republic of the Congo stubs|Republic of the Congo stubs]]''' {{tl|RCongo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Rwanda stubs|Rwanda stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Rwandan people}} | {{tl|Rwanda-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:São Tomé and Príncipe stubs|São Tomé and Príncipe stubs]]''' {{tl|SaoTomePrincipe-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Senegal stubs|Senegal stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Senegalese people}} | {{tl|Senegal-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Seychelles stubs|Seychelles stubs]]''' {{tl|Seychelles-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Sierra Leone stubs|Sierra Leone stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Sierra Leonean people}} | {{tl|SierraLeone-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Somalia stubs|Somalia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Somali people}} | {{tl|Somalia-stub}}

***{{tl|Somaliland-stub}} feeds into this category

**'''[[:Category:South Africa stubs|South Africa stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|South African people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|SouthAfrica-stub}}

***<small>Child: {{tl|SouthAfrica-road-stub}} under [[#Transport|Transport]]</small>

***'''[[:Category:Johannesburg stubs|Johannesburg stubs]]''' {{tl|Johannesburg-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Swaziland stubs|Swaziland stubs]]''' {{tl|Swaziland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Sudan stubs|Sudan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Sudanese people}} | {{tl|Sudan-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Tanzania stubs|Tanzania stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Tanzanian people}} | {{tl|Tanzania-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Togo stubs|Togo stubs]]''' {{tl|Togo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Tunisia stubs|Tunisia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Tunisian people}} | {{tl|Tunisia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Uganda stubs|Uganda stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Ugandan people}} | {{tl|Uganda-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Western Sahara stubs|Western Sahara stubs]]''' - {{tl|WesternSahara-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Zambia stubs|Zambia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Zambian people}} | {{tl|Zambia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Zimbabwe stubs|Zimbabwe stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Zimbabwean people}} | {{tl|Zimbabwe-stub}}

=====Asia=====

Previous discussions moved to Archive 13.

*<small>''most categories have a geo-child in [[#Asian_geography|Asian geography]]''</small>

*'''[[:Category:Asia stubs|Asia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B||Asian people}} | {{tl|Asia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Central Asia stubs|Central Asia stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|CAsia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Afghanistan stubs|Afghanistan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Afghan people}} | {{tl|Afghanistan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kazakhstan stubs|Kazakhstan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Kazakhstani people}} | {{tl|Kazakhstan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kyrgyzstan stubs|Kyrgyzstan stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Kyrgyzstan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Mongolia stubs|Mongolia stubs]]''' - {{tl|Mongolia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tajikistan stubs|Tajikistan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Tajikistani people}} | {{tl|Tajikistan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Turkmenistan stubs|Turkmenistan stubs]]''' - {{tl|Turkmenistan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tibet stubs|Tibet stubs]]''' - {{tl|Tibet-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Uzbekistan stubs|Uzbekistan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Uzbekistani people}} | {{tl|Uzbekistan-stub}}

**<small>'''East Asia'''</small>

***'''[[:Category:China stubs|China stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Chinese people}} | {{tl|China-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Hong Kong stubs|Hong Kong stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Hong Kong people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] - {{tl|HongKong-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Macau stubs|Macau stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Macau-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Taiwan stubs|Taiwan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Taiwanese people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] - {{tl|Taiwan-stub}}

****<small>''{{tl|Tibet-stub}}'' also feeds into ''Central Asia-related stubs''</small>

***'''[[:Category:Japan stubs|Japan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Japanese people}} | {{tl|Japan-stub}}

****<small>see also [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Commerce|Japanese company stubs]]</small>

***'''[[:Category:Korea stubs|Korea stubs]]''' - {{tl|Korea-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Middle East stubs|Middle East stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Middle Eastern people}} | {{tl|MEast-stub}}

***<small>''{{tl|Caucasus-stub}}'' also feeds into ''Europe stubs''</small>

***'''[[:Category:Bahrain stubs|Bahrain stubs]]''' {{tl|Bahrain-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Iran stubs|Iran stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Iranian people}} | {{tl|Iran-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Iraq stubs|Iraq stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Iraqi people}} | {{tl|Iraq-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Israel stubs|Israel stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Israeli people}} | {{tl|Israel-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Jordan stubs|Jordan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B||Jordanian people}}| | {{tl|Jordan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kuwait stubs|Kuwait stubs]]''' {{tl|Kuwait-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lebanon stubs|Lebanon stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Lebanese people}} | {{tl|Lebanon-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oman stubs|Oman stubs]]''' {{tl|Oman-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Palestine stubs|Palestine stubs]]''' {{tl|Palestine-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Qatar stubs|Qatar stubs]]''' {{tl|Qatar-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Saudi Arabia stubs|Saudi Arabia stubs]]''' {{tl|SaudiArabia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Syria stubs|Syria stubs]]''' {{tl|Syria-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Turkey stubs|Turkey stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Turkish people}} |[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Turkey-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:United Arab Emirates stubs|United Arab Emirates stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|United Arab Emirati people}} | {{tl|UAE-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Yemen stubs|Yemen stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Yemeni people}} | {{tl|Yemen-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:South Asia stubs|South Asia stubs]]''' {{tl|SAsia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Bangladesh stubs|Bangladesh stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B||Bangladeshi people}} | {{tl|Bangladesh-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Bangladesh organisation stubs|Bangladesh organisation stubs]]''' {{tl|Bangladesh-org-stub}}

*****{{tl|Bangladesh-gov-stub}} feeds into this category

***'''[[:Category:Bhutan stubs|Bhutan stubs]]''' {{tl|Bhutan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:India stubs|India stubs]]''' [[:Category:Indian people stubs|*B]] | {{tl|India-stub}}

****{{tl|India-lit-stub}} feeds into this category

****{{tl|PuneDistrict-stub}} feeds into this category

****'''[[:Category:Indian culture stubs|Indian culture stubs]]''' {{tl|India-culture-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Indian ethnicity stubs|Indian ethnicity stubs]]''' {{tl|India-ethno-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Indian government stubs|Indian government stubs]]''' {{tl|India-gov-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:India media stubs|India media stubs]]''' {{tl|India-media-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:India sports stubs|India sports stubs]]''' {{tl|India-sports-stub}}

****<small>see also [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Commerce|Indian company stubs]]</small>

****<small>see also [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Commerce|Economy of India stubs]]</small>

****'''[[:Category:Kerala stubs|Kerala stubs]]''' {{tl|Kerala-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Maldives stubs|Maldives stubs]]''' {{tl|Maldives-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nepal stubs|Nepal stubs]]''' {{tl|Nepal-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Pakistan stubs|Pakistan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Pakistani people}} | {{tl|Pakistan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sri Lanka stubs|Sri Lanka stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Sri Lankan people}} | {{tl|SriLanka-stub}}

**'''South East Asia

***'''[[:Category:Brunei stubs|Brunei stubs]]''' {{tl|Brunei-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Cambodia stubs|Cambodia stubs]]''' {{tl|Cambodia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Indonesia stubs|Indonesia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Indonesian people}} | {{tl|Indonesia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Laos stubs|Laos stubs]]''' {{tl|Laos-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Malaysia stubs|Malaysia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Malaysian people}} | {{tl|Malaysia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Myanmar stubs|Myanmar stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Burmese people}} | {{tl|Myanmar-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Philippines stubs|Philippines stubs]]''' {{tl|Philippines-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Singapore stubs|Singapore stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Singaporean people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Singapore-stub}}

****<small>Additional child: {{tl|Singapore-MRT-stub}} in [[#Transportation|Transportation]] under {{tl|Metro-stub}}</small>

***'''[[:Category:Thailand stubs|Thailand stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Thai people}} | {{tl|Thailand-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Vietnam stubs|Vietnam-stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Vietnamese people}} {{tl|Vietnam-stub}}

=====Europe=====

== Unfinished Business ==

*<small>''most categories have a geo-stub in [[#European_geography|European geography]]''</small>

*'''[[:Category:Europe stubs|Europe stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|European people}} | {{tl|Euro-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Albania stubs|Albania stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Albanian people}} | {{tl|Albania-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Andorra stubs|Andorra stubs]]''' {{tl|Andorra-stub}}

**<small>{{tl|Armenia-stub}} under {{tl|Caucasus-stub}} below</small>

**'''[[:Category:Austria stubs|Austria stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Austrian people}} | {{tl|Austria-stub}}

**<small>{{tl|Azerbaijan-stub}} under {{tl|Caucasus-stub}} below</small>

**'''[[:Category:Belarus stubs|Belarus stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Belarusian people}} | {{tl|Belarus-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Belgium stubs|Belgium stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Belgian people}} | {{tl|Belgium-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina stubs|Bosnia and Herzegovina stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Bosnia and Herzegovina people}} | {{tl|BosniaHerzegovina-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Bulgaria stubs|Bulgaria stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Bulgarian people}} | {{tl|Bulgaria-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Caucasus stubs|Caucasus stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Caucasian people}} | {{tl|Caucasus-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Armenia stubs|Armenia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Armenian people}} |{{tl|Armenia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Azerbaijan stubs|Azerbaijan stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B||Azerbaijani people}} | {{tl|Azerbaijan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Georgia (country) stubs|Georgia (country) stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Georgian (country) people}} | {{tl|Georgia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Croatia stubs|Croatia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Croatian people}} | {{tl|Croatia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Czech Republic stubs|Czech Republic stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Czech people}} | {{tl|Czech-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cyprus stubs|Cyprus stubs]]''' {{tl|Cyprus-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Denmark stubs|Denmark stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Danish people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Denmark-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Estonia stubs|Estonia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Estonian people}} | {{tl|Estonia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:European Union stubs|European Union stubs]]''' {{tl|EU-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Faroe Islands stubs|Faroe Islands stubs]]''' - {{tl|Faroes-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Finland stubs|Finland stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Finnish people}} | {{tl|Finland-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Åland stubs|Åland stubs]]''' {{tl|Åland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:France stubs|France stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|French people}} | {{tl|France-stub}}

**<small>{{tl|Georgia-stub}} under {{tl|Caucasus-stub}} above</small>

**'''[[:Category:Germany stubs|Germany stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|German people}} | {{tl|Germany-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Gibraltar stubs|Gibraltar stubs]]''' {{tl|Gibraltar-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Greece stubs|Greece stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Greek people}} | {{tl|Greece-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Hungary stubs|Hungary stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Hungarian people}} |{{tl|Hungary-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Iceland stubs|Iceland stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Icelandic people}} | {{tl|Iceland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ireland stubs|Ireland stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Irish people}} | {{tl|Ireland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Italy stubs|Italy stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Italian people}} | {{tl|Italy-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sicily stubs|Sicily stubs]]''' - {{tl|Sicily-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Latvia stubs|Latvia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Latvian people}} | {{tl|Latvia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Liechtenstein stubs|Liechtenstein stubs]]''' {{tl|Liechtenstein-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Lithuania stubs|Lithuania stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Lithuanian people}} |{{tl|Lithuania-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Luxembourg stubs|Luxembourg stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Luxembourgian people}} |{{tl|Luxembourg-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Luxembourgian sport stubs|Luxembourgian sport stubs]]''' {{tl|Luxembourg-sport-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Malta stubs|Malta stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Maltese people}} | {{tl|Malta-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Moldova stubs|Moldova stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Moldovan people}} |{{tl|Moldova-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Montenegro stubs|Montenegro stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Montenegrin people}} | {{tl|Montenegro-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Monaco stubs|Monaco stubs]]''' {{tl|Monaco-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Netherlands stubs|Netherlands stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Dutch people}} | {{tl|Netherlands-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Norway stubs|Norway stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Norwegian people}} | {{tl|Norway-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Poland stubs|Poland stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Polish people}} | {{tl|Poland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Portugal stubs|Portugal stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Portuguese people}} | {{tl|Portugal-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Romania stubs|Romania stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Romanian people}} | {{tl|Romania-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Russia stubs|Russia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Russian people}} | {{tl|Russia-stub}}

***<small>Child: {{tl|Russia-hist-stub}} in [[#History|History]] at the top level</small>

**'''[[:Category:San Marino stubs|San Marino stubs]]''' {{tl|SanMarino-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Serbia stubs|Serbia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Serbian people}} | {{tl|Serbia-stub}}

***<small>{{tl|NoviSad-stub}} feeds into this category</small>

***'''[[:Category:Vojvodina stubs|Vojvodina stubs]]''' | {{tl|Vojvodina-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Slovakia stubs|Slovakia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Slovak people}} | {{tl|Slovakia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Slovenia stubs|Slovenia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Slovenian people}} | {{tl|Slovenia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Spain stubs|Spain stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Spanish people}} | {{tl|Spain-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Asturias stubs|Asturias stubs]]''' {{tl|Asturias-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Balearic Islands stubs|Balearic Islands stubs]]''' {{tl|Balearics-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Cantabria stubs|Cantabria stubs]]''' {{tl|Cantabria-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Catalonia stubs|Catalonia stubs]]''' {{tl|Catalonia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Galicia stubs|Galicia stubs]]''' {{tl|Galicia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Valencia stubs|Valencia stubs]]''' {{tl|Valencia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Sweden stubs|Sweden stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Swedish people}} | {{tl|Sweden-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Switzerland stubs|Switzerland stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Swiss people}} | {{tl|Switzerland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Turkey stubs|Turkey stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Turkish people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Turkey-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ukraine stubs|Ukraine stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Ukrainian people}} - {{tl|Ukraine-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United Kingdom stubs|United Kingdom stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|British people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|UK-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:England stubs|England stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|English people}} | {{tl|England-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Cornwall stubs|Cornwall stubs]]''' {{tl|Cornwall-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Northern Ireland stubs|Northern Ireland stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Northern Irish people}} {{tl|NI-stub}}

****{{tl|Belfast-stub}} ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Belfast|*W]]) feeds into this category

***'''[[:Category:Scotland stubs|Scotland stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Scottish people}} | {{tl|Scotland-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Wales stubs|Wales stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Welsh people}} | {{tl|Wales-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Isle of Man stubs|Isle of Man stubs]]''' | {{tl|IsleofMan-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:British Atlantic territories stubs|British Atlantic territories stubs]]''' | {{tl|UK-Atlantic-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Channel Islands stubs|Channel Islands stubs]]''' | {{tl|ChannelIslands-stub}}

***<small>Children: {{tl|UK-gov-stub}} and {{tl|UK-poli-stub}} in [[#Government_and_politics|Government]] under {{tl|Gov-stub}} and {{tl|Politician-stub}}, respectively; {{tl|UK-hist-stub}} in [[#History|History]] under {{tl|Hist-stub}}; {{tl|UK-org-stub}} in [[#Miscellaneous|Miscellaneous]] under {{tl|Org-stub}}; {{tl|UK-struct-stub}} in [[#By_location|Buildings by ___location]] under {{tl|Euro-struct-stub}}; {{tl|BBC-stub}} in [[#Broadcast_media|Broadcast media]] at the top level</small>

=====North and Central America=====

OK... As agreed, I have Archived the previous overly long talk page so that we can start fresh. Please list below any topics or sections that you feel we need to address. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 14:27, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''[[:Category:Canada stubs|Canada stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Canadian people}} | {{tl|Canada-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Alberta stubs|Alberta stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Alberta|*W]]) - {{tl|Alberta-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:British Columbia stubs|British Columbia stubs]]''' {{tl|BritishColumbia-stub}}

***{{tl|BritishColumbia-poli-stub}} feeds into this category

***'''[[:Category:Greater Vancouver Regional District stubs|Greater Vancouver Regional District stubs]]''' {{tl|GVRD-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Vancouver stubs|Vancouver stubs]]''' {{tl|Vancouver-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Newfoundland and Labrador stubs|Newfoundland and Labrador stubs]]''' - {{tl|Newfoundland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Northwest Territories stubs|Northwest Territories stubs]]''' - {{tl|NorthwestTerritories-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nova Scotia stubs|Nova Scotia stubs]]''' - {{tl|NovaScotia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nunavut stubs|Nunavut stubs]]''' - {{tl|Nunavut-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ontario stubs|Ontario stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]]) - {{tl|Ontario-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ottawa stubs|Ottawa stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Ottawa|*W]]) - {{tl|Ottawa-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Toronto stubs|Toronto stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Toronto|*W]]) - {{tl|Toronto-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Quebec stubs|Quebec stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|People from Quebec}} | {{tl|Quebec-stub}}

***{{tl|QuebecCity-stub}} feeds into this category

**'''[[:Category:Saskatchewan stubs|Saskatchewan stubs]]''' - {{tl|Saskatchewan-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Yukon Territory stubs|Yukon Territory stubs]]''' - {{tl|YukonTerritory-stub}}

**<small>see also [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#People_by_nation_or_region|bio-stub child]] and [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Government_and_politics|gov-stub child]]</small>

*'''[[:Category:Caribbean stubs|Caribbean stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Caribbean people}} | {{tl|Caribbean-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Barbados stubs|Barbados stubs]]''' - {{tl|Barbados-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cuba stubs|Cuba stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Cuban people}} {{tl|Cuba-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cayman Islands stubs|Cayman Islands stubs]]''' - {{tl|Caymans-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Haiti stubs|Haiti stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Haitian people}} {{tl|Haiti-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Jamaica stubs|Jamaica stubs]]''' - {{tl|Jamaica-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Puerto Rico stubs|Puerto Rico stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Puerto Rican people}} {{tl|PuertoRico-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Trinidad and Tobago stubs|Trinidad and Tobago stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Trinidad and Tobago people}} {{tl|Trinidad-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Central America stubs|Central America stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Central American people}} | {{tl|CentralAm-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Belize stubs|Belize stubs]]''' - {{tl|Belize-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Costa Rica stubs|Costa Rica stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Costa Rican people}} {{tl|CostaRica-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:El Salvador stubs|El Salvador stubs]]''' ([[WP:WSS/R|*R]]) - {{tl|ElSalvador-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Guatemala stubs|Guatemala stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Guatemalan people}} | {{tl|Guatemala-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Honduras stubs|Honduras stubs]]''' - {{tl|Honduras-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nicaragua stubs|Nicaragua stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Nicaraguan people}} {{tl|Nicaragua-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Panama stubs|Panama stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Panamanian people}} {{tl|Panama-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Greenland stubs|Greenland stubs]]''' - {{tl|Greenland-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Mexico stubs|Mexico stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Mexican people}} | {{tl|Mexico-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:United States stubs|United States stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|American people}} | {{tl|US-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Alaska stubs|Alaska stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Alaska|*W]]) - {{tl|Alaska-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Arizona stubs|Arizona stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Arizona|*W]]) - {{tl|Arizona-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Arkansas stubs|Arkansas stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Arkansas|*W]]) - {{tl|Arkansas-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:California stubs|California stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject California|*W]]) {{tl|California-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Colorado stubs|Colorado stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Colorado|*W]]) - {{tl|Colorado-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Florida stubs|Florida stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Florida people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Florida|*W]] | {{tl|Florida-stub}}

***<small>{{tl|Florida-media-stub}} feeds into this category</small>

**'''[[:Category:Georgia (U.S. state) stubs|Georgia (U.S. state) stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)|*W]]) - {{tl|GeorgiaUS-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Atlanta stubs|Atlanta stubs]]''' - {{tl|Atlanta-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Hawaii stubs|Hawaii stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Hawaii|*W]]) - {{tl|Hawaii-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Idaho stubs|Idaho stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Idaho|*W]]) - {{tl|Idaho-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Illinois stubs|Illinois stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Illinois|*W]]) - {{tl|Illinois-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Chicago stubs|Chicago stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Chicago|*W]]) - {{tl|Chicago-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Indiana stubs|Indiana stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Indiana|*W]]) - {{tl|Indiana-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Iowa stubs|Iowa stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Iowa people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Iowa|*W]] | {{tl|Iowa-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Kentucky stubs|Kentucky stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Kentucky|*W]]) - {{tl|Kentucky-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Louisville stubs|Louisville stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Louisville|*W]]) {{tl|Louisville-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Louisiana stubs|Louisiana stubs]]''' - {{tl|Louisiana-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New Orleans stubs|New Orleans stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewOrleans-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Maine stubs|Maine stubs]]''' {{tl|Maine-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Maryland stubs|Maryland stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Maryland|*W]]) - {{tl|Maryland-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Massachusetts stubs|Massachusetts stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Massachusetts|*W]]) - {{tl|Massachusetts-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Michigan stubs|Michigan stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Michigan|*W]]) - {{tl|Michigan-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Minnesota stubs|Minnesota stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Minnesota|*W]]) - {{tl|Minnesota-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Mississippi stubs|Mississippi stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Mississippi|*W]]) - {{tl|Mississippi-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Missouri stubs|Missouri stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Missouri|*W]]) - {{tl|Missouri-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Montana stubs|Montana stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Montana|*W]]) - {{tl|Montana-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New Hampshire stubs|New Hampshire stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject New Hampshire|*W]]) - {{tl|NewHampshire-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New Jersey stubs|New Jersey stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject New Jersey|*W]]) - {{tl|NewJersey-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New York stubs|New York stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject New York|*W]]) - {{tl|NewYork-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New York City stubs|New York City stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject New York City|*W]]) - {{tl|NYC-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:North Carolina stubs|North Carolina stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject North Carolina|*W]]) - {{tl|NorthCarolina-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:North Dakota stubs|North Dakota stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject North Dakota|*W]]) - {{tl|NorthDakota-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ohio stubs|Ohio stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Ohio|*W]]) - {{tl|Ohio-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Oklahoma stubs|Oklahoma stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Oklahoma|*W]]) - {{tl|Oklahoma-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Oregon stubs|Oregon stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Oregon people}} [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Oregon|*W]] | {{tl|Oregon-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Pennsylvania stubs|Pennsylvania stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Pennsylvania|*W]]) - {{tl|Pennsylvania-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Philadelphia stubs|Philadelphia stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Philadelphia|*W]]) - {{tl|Philadelphia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Pittsburgh stubs|Pittsburgh stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Pittsburgh|*W]]) - {{tl|Pittsburgh-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:South Carolina stubs|South Carolina stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject South Carolina|*W]]) - {{tl|SouthCarolina-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:South Dakota stubs|South Dakota stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject South Dakota|*W]]) - {{tl|SouthDakota-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Tennessee stubs|Tennessee stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Tennessee|*W]]) - {{tl|Tennessee-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Texas stubs|Texas stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Texas people}} [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Texas|*W]] | {{tl|Texas-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Dallas stubs|Dallas stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dallas|*W]]) - {{tl|Dallas-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Utah stubs|Utah stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Utah people}} [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Utah|*W]] | {{tl|Utah-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Vermont stubs|Vermont stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Vermont|*W]]) {{tl|Vermont-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Virginia stubs|Virginia stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Virginia|*W]]) - {{tl|Virginia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Washington, D.C. stubs|Washington, D.C. stubs]]''' {{tl|WashingtonDC-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:West Virginia stubs|West Virginia stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject West Virginia|*W]]) - {{tl|WestVirginia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Wisconsin stubs|Wisconsin stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Wisconsin|*W]]) - {{tl|Wisconsin-stub}}

**<small>you can use <nowiki>{{</nowiki>''State''-stub}} for any state</small>

**<small>other children: {{tl|US-bcast-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Broadcast media|broadcast media]]; {{tl|US-gov-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Government, law and politics|government, law, and politics]]; {{tl|US-hist-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#History|history]]; {{tl|US-mil-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Military and weaponry|military and weaponry]]; {{tl|US-poli-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Government, law and politics|government, law and politics]]; {{tl|US-rail-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Transport|transport]]; {{tl|US-school-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Education|education]]; {{tl|US-university-stub}} under [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Stub_sorting/Stub_types#Education|education]]</small>

=====Oceania=====

You might wish to add an external link:

*<small>''most categories have a geo-child in [[#Australian_and_Oceanian_geography|Australian and Oceanian geography]]''</small>

[http://sankey.ws/dad/light.html Light in Masonry]

*'''[[:Category:Australia stubs|Australia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Australian people}} | {{tl|Australia-stub}}

**<small>Other child: {{tl|Australia-gov-stub}} in [[#Government_and_politics|Government]] under {{tl|Gov-stub}}</small>

**'''[[:Category:Adelaide stubs|Adelaide stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Adelaide|*W]] | {{tl|Adelaide-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Australian Capital Territory stubs|Australian Capital Territory stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Canberra|*W]] | {{tl|Canberra-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Hobart stubs|Hobart stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Tasmania|*W]] | {{tl|Hobart-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Melbourne stubs|Melbourne stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Melbourne|*W]] | {{tl|Melbourne-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Western Australia stubs|Western Australia stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia|*W]] | {{tl|WesternAustralia-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Perth, Western Australia stubs|Perth]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Perth|*W]] | {{tl|Perth-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Oceania stubs|Oceania stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Oceanian people}} | {{tl|Oceania-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Fiji stubs|Fiji stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Fijian people}} | {{tl|Fiji-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nauru stubs|Nauru stubs]]''' {{tl|Nauru-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New Zealand stubs|New Zealand stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|New Zealand people}} | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|NZ-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Papua New Guinea stubs|Papua New Guinea stubs]]''' {{tl|PapuaNewGuinea-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Samoa stubs|Samoa stubs]]''' {{tl|Samoa-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Tonga stubs|Tonga stubs]]''' {{tl|Tonga-stub}}

==Complete===South rewriteAmerica=====

*'''[[:Category:South America stubs|South America stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|South American people}} {{tl|SouthAm-stub}}

This article needs a complete rewrite to incorporate the merge suggestions and to overcome the NPOV and factual disputes. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 17:35, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Argentina stubs|Argentina stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Argentine people}} {{tl|Argentina-stub}}

:It doesn't need a complete rewrite. It needs a cleanup. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 19:40, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Bolivia stubs|Bolivia stubs]]''' {{tl|Bolivia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Brazil stubs|Brazil stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Brazilian people}} {{tl|Brazil-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Chile stubs|Chile stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Chilean people}} {{tl|Chile-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Colombia stubs|Colombia stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Colombian people}} {{tl|Colombia-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ecuador stubs|Ecuador stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Ecuadorian people}} {{tl|Ecuador-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Guyana stubs|Guyana stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Guyanese people}} {{tl|Guyana-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Paraguay stubs|Paraguay stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Paraguayan people}} {{tl|Paraguay-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Peru stubs|Peru stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Peruvian people}} - {{tl|Peru-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Suriname stubs|Suriname stubs]]''' {{tl|Suriname-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Uruguay stubs|Uruguay stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Uruguayan people}} {{tl|Uruguay-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Venezuela stubs|Venezuela stubs]]''' {{WPSS*B|Venezuelan people}} {{tl|Venezuela-stub}}

====Location-specific geography stubs====

::I agree with Seraphim, no need to completely rewrite as there is a lot of good stuff in the article as it is. OK, I might disagree with her about which exact parts need a clean up, and how exaclty to word that clean up, but that is how the editorial process works. You debate and exchange ideas back and forth until something can be agreed on. We will get there. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 19:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

=====African geography=====

::No, the merge tags are for sections, so those sections will need to be worked on. Glad the persons so eager for their merge are so willing to put in all that hard work... '' ''';~D''' '' [[User:Grye|Grye]] 21:54, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''[[:Category:Africa geography stubs|Africa geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Africa-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Central Africa geography stubs|Central Africa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AfricaC-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Central African Republic geography stubs|Central African Republic geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|CentralAfricanRepublic-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Chad geography stubs|Chad geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Chad-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Democratic Republic of the Congo geography stubs|Democratic Republic of the Congo geography stubs]]''' {{tl|DRCongo-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Gabon geography stubs|Gabon geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Gabon-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Rwanda geography stubs|Rwanda geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Rwanda-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:East Africa geography stubs|East Africa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AfricaE-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Eritrea geography stubs|Eritrea geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Eritrea-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ethiopia geography stubs|Ethiopia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Ethiopia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kenya geography stubs|Kenya geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kenya-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Seychelles geography stubs|Seychelles geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Seychelles-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Somalia geography stubs|Somalia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Somalia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tanzania geography stubs|Tanzania geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Tanzania-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Uganda geography stubs|Uganda geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Uganda-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:North Africa geography stubs|North Africa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AfricaN-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Algeria geography stubs|Algeria geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Algeria-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Egypt geography stubs|Egypt geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Egypt-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Libya geography stubs|Libya geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Libya-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Morocco geography stubs|Morocco geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Morocco-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sudan geography stubs|Sudan geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Sudan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tunisia geography stubs|Tunisia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Tunisia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Southern Africa geography stubs|Southern Africa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AfricaS-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Angola geography stubs|Angola geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Angola-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Botswana geography stubs|Botswana geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Botswana-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Comoros geography stubs|Comoros geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Comoros-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Madagascar geography stubs|Madagascar geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Madagascar-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Malawi geography stubs|Malawi geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Malawi-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Mozambique geography stubs|Mozambique geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Mozambique-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Namibia geography stubs|Namibia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Namibia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Africa geography stubs|South Africa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|SouthAfrica-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Zambia geography stubs|Zambia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Zambia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Zimbabwe geography stubs|Zimbabwe geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Zimbabwe-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:West Africa geography stubs|West Africa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AfricaW-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Benin geography stubs|Benin geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Benin-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Burkina Faso geography stubs|Burkina Faso geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|BurkinaFaso-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Cameroon geography stubs|Cameroon geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Cameroon-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Cape Verde geography stubs|Cape Verde geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|CapeVerde-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Côte d'Ivoire geography stubs|Côte d'Ivoire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|CotedIvoire-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ghana geography stubs|Ghana geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Ghana-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Guinea geography stubs|Guinea geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Guinea-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Liberia geography stubs|Liberia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Liberia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Mali geography stubs|Mali geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Mali-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Niger geography stubs|Niger geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Niger-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nigeria geography stubs|Nigeria geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Nigeria-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Senegal geography stubs|Senegal geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Senegal-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sierra Leone geography stubs|Sierra Leone geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|SierraLeone-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Togo geography stubs|Togo geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Togo-geo-stub}}

=====Antarctica geography=====

== Merger Tag ==

*'''[[:Category:Antarctica geography stubs|Antarctica geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Antarctica-geo-stub}}

It belongs on the top of the article, it is not a simple merger of the entirety of the Anti-Freemasonry page into the Criticism, persecution, and prosecution section. Some of the information there if the merger carries out will be included in the history section here as well. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 00:16, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

=====Asian geography=====

:When last I checked, the discussion on the Anti-Masonry page is that it was a seperate valid article in its own right. This is especially true as people continue to work on the POV parts of that article. Thus, the majority of editors there no longer think it should be merged with/into this article (in fact you seem to be the only one still pushing the merge idea). In any event, the merge idea is likely to be shot down from both sides. So... if you dislike what the criticisms section that exists here has to say, do some editing. As far as I am concerned we can remove the tag completely. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 00:29, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''[[:Category:Asia geography stubs|Asia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Asia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Afghanistan geography stubs|Afghanistan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Afghanistan-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Bangladesh geography stubs|Bangladesh geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bangladesh-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Central Asia geography stubs|Central Asia geography stubs]]''' - Filing category, no subs

***'''[[:Category:Kazakhstan geography stubs|Kazakhstan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Kazakhstan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kyrgyzstan geography stubs|Kyrgyzstan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Kyrgyzstan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Mongolia geography stubs|Mongolia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Mongolia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tajikistan geography stubs|Tajikistan geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Tajikistan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Turkmenistan geography stubs|Turkmenistan geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Turkmenistan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Uzbekistan geography stubs|Uzbekistan geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Uzbekistan-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:India geography stubs|India geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|India-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Andaman and Nicobar geography stubs|Andaman and Nicobar geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AndamanNicobar-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Andhra Pradesh geography stubs|Andhra Pradesh geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AndhraPradesh-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Assam geography stubs|Assam geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Assam-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Bihar geography stubs|Bihar geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Bihar-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Chhattisgarh geography stubs|Chhattisgarh geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Chhattisgarh-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Gujarat geography stubs|Gujarat geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Gujarat-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Haryana geography stubs|Haryana geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Haryana-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Himachal Pradesh geography stubs|Himachal Pradesh geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|HimachalPradesh-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Jammu and Kashmir geography stubs|Jammu and Kashmir geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|JammuKashmir-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Jharkhand geography stubs|Jharkhand geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Jharkhand-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Karnataka geography stubs|Karnataka geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Karnataka-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kerala geography stubs|Kerala geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kerala-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Madhya Pradesh geography stubs|Madhya Pradesh geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|MadhyaPradesh-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Maharashtra geography stubs|Maharashtra geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Maharashtra-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Orissa geography stubs|Orissa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Orissa-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Punjab (India) geography stubs|Punjab (India) geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|PunjabIN-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Rajasthan geography stubs|Rajasthan geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Rajasthan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tamil Nadu geography stubs|Tamil Nadu geography stubs]]''' {{tl|TamilNadu-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Uttarakhand geography stubs|Uttarakhand geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Uttarakhand-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Uttar Pradesh geography stubs|Uttar Pradesh geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|UttarPradesh-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:West Bengal geography stubs|West Bengal geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|WestBengal-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Japan geography stubs|Japan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Japan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aichi geography stubs|Aichi geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Aichi-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Akita geography stubs|Akita geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Akita-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aomori geography stubs|Aomori geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Aomori-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Chiba geography stubs|Chiba geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Chiba-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ehime geography stubs|Ehime geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Ehime-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Fukui geography stubs|Fukui geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Fukui-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Fukuoka geography stubs|Fukuoka geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Fukuoka-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Fukushima geography stubs|Fukushima geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Fukushima-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Gifu geography stubs|Gifu geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Gifu-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Gunma geography stubs|Gunma geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Gunma-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hiroshima geography stubs|Hiroshima geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hiroshima-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hokkaidō geography stubs|Hokkaidō geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hokkaido-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hyōgo geography stubs|Hyōgo geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hyogo-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ibaraki geography stubs|Ibaraki geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Ibaraki-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ishikawa geography stubs|Ishikawa geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Ishikawa-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Iwate geography stubs|Iwate geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Iwate-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kagawa geography stubs|Kagawa geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Kagawa-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kagoshima geography stubs|Kagoshima geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Kagoshima-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kōchi geography stubs|Kōchi geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Kochi-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kumamoto geography stubs|Kumamoto geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Kumamoto-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kyoto geography stubs|Kyoto geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Kyoto-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Mie geography stubs|Mie geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Mie-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Miyagi geography stubs|Miyagi geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Miyagi-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nagano geography stubs|Nagano geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Nagano-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nagasaki geography stubs|Nagasaki geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Nagasaki-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Niigata geography stubs|Niigata geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Niigata-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oita geography stubs|Oita geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Oita-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Okayama geography stubs|Okayama geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Okayama-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Okinawa geography stubs|Okinawa geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Okinawa-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Osaka geography stubs|Osaka geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Osaka-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Saga geography stubs|Saga geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Saga-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Saitama geography stubs|Saitama geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Saitama-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Shiga geography stubs|Shiga geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Shiga-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Shimane geography stubs|Shimane geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Shimane-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Shizuoka geography stubs|Shizuoka geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Shizuoka-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tochigi geography stubs|Tochigi geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Tochigi-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tokushima geography stubs|Tokushima geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Tokushima-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tokyo geography stubs|Tokyo geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Tokyo-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tottori geography stubs|Tottori geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Tottori-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Yamagata geography stubs|Yamagata geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Yamagata-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Yamaguchi geography stubs|Yamaguchi geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Yamaguchi-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Yamanashi geography stubs|Yamanashi geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Yamanashi-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Korea geography stubs|Korea geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Korea-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Maldives geography stubs|Maldives geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Maldives-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Middle East geography stubs|Middle East geography stubs]]''' {{tl|MEast-geo-stub}}

**<small>{{tl|Qatar-geo-stub}} feeds into this category</small>

***'''[[:Category:Iran geography stubs|Iran geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Iran-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Iraq geography stubs|Iraq geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Iraq-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Israel geography stubs|Israel geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Israel-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Jordan geography stubs|Jordan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Jordan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lebanon geography stubs|Lebanon geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Lebanon-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oman geography stubs|Oman geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Oman-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Palestine geography stubs|Palestine geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Palestine-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Saudi Arabia geography stubs|Saudi Arabia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SaudiArabia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Syria geography stubs|Syria geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Syria-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:United Arab Emirates geography stubs|United Arab Emirates geography stubs]]''' {{tl|UAE-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Yemen geography stubs|Yemen geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Yemen-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nepal geography stubs|Nepal geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Nepal-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Pakistan geography stubs|Pakistan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Pakistan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Balochistan geography stubs|Balochistan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Balochistan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:North-West Frontier Province geography stubs|North-West Frontier Province geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthWestFrontier-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Punjab (Pakistan) geography stubs|Punjab (Pakistan) geography stubs]]''' {{tl|PunjabPK-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sindh geography stubs|Sindh geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Sindh-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:People's Republic of China geography stubs|People's Republic of China geography stubs]]''' {{tl|PRC-geo-stub}}

***<small>{{tl|Macau-geo-stub}} feeds into this category</small>

***<small>Other children: {{tl|PRC-airport-stub}} under [[<includeonly>#</includeonly><noinclude>../</noinclude>Transport|Transport]] and {{tl|PRC-struct-stub}} under [[#Buildings and structures|Buildings and structures]]</small>

***'''[[:Category:Eastern China geography stubs|Eastern China geography stubs]]'''

****<small>{{tl|Fujian-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Jiangsu-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Jiangxi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Shandong-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Shanghai-geo-stub}} all feed into this category</small>

****'''[[:Category:Anhui geography stubs|Anhui geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Anhui-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Zhejiang geography stubs|Zhejiang geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Zhejiang-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hong Kong geography stubs|Hong Kong geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|HongKong-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:North China geography stubs|North China geography stubs]]'''

****<small>{{tl|Beijing-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Hebei-geo-stub}}, {{tl|InnerMongolia-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Shanxi-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Tianjin-geo-stub}} all feed into this category</small>

***'''[[:Category:Northeast China geography stubs|Northeast China geography stubs]]'''

****<small>{{tl|Heilongjiang-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Jilin-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Liaoning-geo-stub}} all feed into this category</small>

***'''[[:Category:Northwestern China geography stubs|Northwestern China geography stubs]]'''

****<small>{{tl|Gansu-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Ningxia-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Qinghai-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Shaanxi-geo-stub}} all feed into this category</small>

****'''[[:Category:Xinjiang geography stubs|Xinjiang geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Xinjiang-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Central China geography stubs|South Central China geography stubs]]'''

****<small>{{tl|Guangxi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Hainan-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Henan-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Hubei-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Hunan-geo-stub}} all feed into this category</small>

****'''[[:Category:Guangdong geography stubs|Guangdong geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Guangdong-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Southwest China geography stubs|Southwest China geography stubs]]'''

****<small>{{tl|Chongqing-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Guizhou-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Sichuan-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Yunnan-geo-stub}} all feed into this category</small>

****'''[[:Category:Tibetan geography stubs|Tibetan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Tibet-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Southeast Asia geography stubs|Southeast Asia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SEAsia-geo-stub}}

**<small>{{tl|Brunei-geo-stub}} feeds into this category</small>

***'''[[:Category:Indonesia geography stubs|Indonesia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Indonesia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Laos geography stubs|Laos geography stubs]]''' {{tl| Laos-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Malaysia geography stubs|Malaysia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Malaysia-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Johor geography stubs|Johor geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Johor-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Sabah geography stubs|Sabah geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Sabah-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Sarawak geography stubs|Sarawak geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Sarawak-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Myanmar geography stubs|Myanmar geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Myanmar-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Philippines geography stubs|Philippines geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Philippines-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Singapore geography stubs|Singapore geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Singapore-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Thailand geography stubs|Thailand geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Thailand-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Central Thailand geography stubs|Central Thailand geography stubs]]'''

*****<small> {{tl|AngThong-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Ayutthaya-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Bangkok-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Chainat-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Kanchanaburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Lopburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NakhonNayok-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NakhonPathom-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Nonthaburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|PathumThani-geo-stub}}, {{tl|PrachuapKhiriKhan-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Ratchaburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|SamutPrakan-geo-stub}}, {{tl|SamutSakhon-geo-stub}}, {{tl|SamutSongkhram-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Saraburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Singburi-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Suphanburi-geo-stub}} all feed into this category </small>

****'''[[:Category:Eastern Thailand geography stubs|Eastern Thailand geography stubs]]'''

*****<small> {{tl|Chachoengsao-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Chanthaburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Chonburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Prachinburi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Rayong-geo-stub}}, {{tl|SaKaeo-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Trat-geo-stub}} all feed into this category </small>

****'''[[:Category:Isan geography stubs|Category:Isan geography stubs]]'''

*****<small> {{tl|AmnatCharoen-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Buriram-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Chaiyaphum-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Kalasin-geo-stub}}, {{tl|KhonKaen-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Loei-geo-stub}}, {{tl|MahaSarakham-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Mukdahan-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NakhonPhanom-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NakhonRatchasima-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NongKhai-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NongbuaLamphu-geo-stub}}, {{tl|RoiEt-geo-stub}}, {{tl|SakonNakhon-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Sisaket-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Surin-geo-stub}}, {{tl|UbonRatchathani-geo-stub}}, {{tl|UdonThani-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Yasothon-geo-stub}} all feed into this category </small>

****'''[[:Category:Northern Thailand geography stubs|Northern Thailand geography stubs]]'''

***** <small> {{tl|ChiangMai-geo-stub}}, {{tl|ChiangRai-geo-stub}}, {{tl|KamphaengPhet-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Lampang-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Lamphun-geo-stub}}, {{tl|MaeHongSon-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NakhonSawan-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Nan-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Phayao-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Phetchabun-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Phichit-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Phitsanulok-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Phrae-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Sukhothai-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Tak-geo-stub}}, {{tl|UthaiThani-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Uttaradit-geo-stub}} all feed into this category </small>

****'''[[:Category:Southern Thailand geography stubs|Southern Thailand geography stubs]]'''

***** <small> {{tl|Chumphon-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Krabi-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NakhonSiThammarat-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Narathiwat-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Pattani-geo-stub}}, {{tl|PhangNga-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Phatthalung-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Phuket-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Ranong-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Satun-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Songkhla-geo-stub}}, {{tl|SuratThani-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Trang-geo-stub}}, and {{tl|Yala-geo-stub}} all feed into this category </small>

***'''[[:Category:Vietnam geography stubs|Vietnam geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Vietnam-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Sri Lanka geography stubs|Sri Lanka geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SriLanka-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Republic of China (Taiwan) geography stubs|Republic of China (Taiwan) geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Taiwan-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Turkey geography stubs|Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Turkey-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aegean region of Turkey geography stubs|Aegean region of Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|AegeanTR-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Black Sea region of Turkey geography stubs|Black Sea region of Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|BlackSeaTR-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Central Anatolia region of Turkey geography stubs|Central Anatolia region of Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|CAnatolia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Eastern Anatolia region of Turkey geography stubs|Eastern Anatolia region of Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|EAnatolia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Marmara region of Turkey geography stubs|Marmara region of Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Marmara-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Mediterranean region of Turkey geography stubs|Mediterranean region of Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|MediterraneanTR-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Southeast Anatolia region of Turkey geography stubs|Southeast Anatolia region of Turkey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SEAnatolia-geo-stub}}

=====European geography=====

::That's not true at all. JASpencer post from this morning "There is still a strong opinion from the non-Masonic editors that this article is a POV fork. I still concur with this. Althought the article has improved and the respect shown to non-Masonic editors has increased markedly, the fundamental flaw in the article is still present.". Just because the majority of people that edit the page are masons does not mean the POV Fork can be ignored. Once all the issues with the POV nature of that article are dealt with, we will see what is left (there are more merge issues going on over there seperate from the main freemasonry page). <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 00:34, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''[[:Category:Europe geography stubs|Europe geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Euro-geo-stub}}

**<small>{{tl|Andorra-geo-stub}} and {{tl|Gibraltar-geo-stub}} feed into this category</small>

**'''[[:Category:Albania geography stubs|Albania geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Albania-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Armenia geography stubs|Armenia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Armenia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Austria geography stubs|Austria geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Austria-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Azerbaijan geography stubs|Azerbaijan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Azerbaijan-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Belarus geography stubs|Belarus geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Belarus-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Belgium geography stubs|Belgium geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Belgium-geo-stub}}

***<small>{{tl|Brussels-geo-stub}} {{tl|LimburgBE-geo-stub}} {{tl|LuxembourgBE-geo-stub}} {{tl|Namur-geo-stub}} and {{tl|WalloonBrabant-geo-stub}} feed into this category</small>

***'''[[:Category:Antwerp geography stubs|Antwerp geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Antwerp-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:East Flanders geography stubs|East Flanders geography stubs]]''' {{tl|EastFlanders-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Flemish Brabant geography stubs|Flemish Brabant geography stubs]]''' {{tl|FlemishBrabant-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hainaut geography stubs|Hainaut geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hainaut-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Liège geography stubs|Liège geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Liege-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:West Flanders geography stubs|West Flanders geography stubs]]''' {{tl|WestFlanders-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Bosnia and Herzegovina geography stubs|Bosnia and Herzegovina geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|BiH-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Bulgaria geography stubs|Bulgaria geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bulgaria-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Croatia geography stubs|Croatia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Croatia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cyprus geography stubs|Cyprus geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Cyprus-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Czech Republic geography stubs|Czech Republic geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Czech-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Denmark geography stubs|Denmark geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Denmark-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Estonia geography stubs|Estonia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Estonia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Faroe Islands geography stubs|Faroe Islands geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Faroes-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Finland geography stubs|Finland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Finland-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:France geography stubs|France geography stubs]]''' {{tl|France-geo-stub}}

***{{tl|Corsica-geo-stub}} and {{tl|Limousin-geo-stub}} feed into this category

***'''[[:Category:Alsace geography stubs|Alsace geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Alsace-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aquitaine geography stubs|Aquitaine geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Aquitaine-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Basse-Normandie geography stubs|Basse-Normandie geography stubs]]''' {{tl|BasseNormandie-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Bourgogne geography stubs|Bourgogne geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bourgogne-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Bretagne geography stubs|Bretagne geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bretagne-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Champagne-Ardenne geography stubs|Champagne-Ardenne geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Champagne-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Région Centre geography stubs|Région Centre geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Centre-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Haute-Normandie geography stubs|Haute-Normandie geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Haute-Normandie-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Île-de-France geography stubs|Île-de-France geography stubs]]''' {{tl|IledeFrance-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Languedoc-Roussillon geography stubs|Languedoc-Roussillon geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Languedoc-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lorraine geography stubs|Lorraine geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Lorraine-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Midi-Pyrénées geography stubs|Midi-Pyrénées geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Pyrenees-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nord-Pas-de-Calais geography stubs|Nord-Pas-de-Calais geography stubs]]''' {{tl|PasdeCalais-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Pays-de-la-Loire geography stubs|Pays-de-la-Loire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Loire-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Picardie geography stubs|Picardie geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Picardie-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Poitou-Charentes geography stubs|Poitou-Charentes geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Poitou-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur geography stubs|Provence-Alpes-Côte d'Azur geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Provence-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Rhône-Alpes geography stubs|Rhône-Alpes geography stubs]]''' {{tl|RhoneAlpes-geo-stub}}

***<small>see also FrenchPolynesia-geo-stub child above</small>

**'''[[:Category:Georgia (country) geography stubs|Georgia (country) geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Georgia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Germany geography stubs|Germany geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Germany-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Baden-Württemberg geography stubs|Baden-Württemberg geography stubs]]''' {{tl|BadenWurttemberg-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Bavaria geography stubs|Bavaria geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bavaria-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Brandenburg geography stubs|Brandenburg geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Brandenburg-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hesse geography stubs|Hesse geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hesse-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lower Saxony geography stubs|Lower Saxony geography stubs]]''' {{tl|LowerSaxony-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:North Rhine-Westphalia geography stubs|North Rhine-Westphalia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthRhineWestphalia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Rhineland-Palatinate geography stubs|Rhineland-Palatinate geography stubs]]''' {{tl|RhinelandPalatinate-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Saxony-Anhalt geography stubs|Saxony-Anhalt geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SaxonyAnhalt-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Schleswig-Holstein geography stubs|Schleswig-Holstein geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SchleswigHolstein-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Thuringia geography stubs|Thuringia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Thuringia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Greece geography stubs|Greece geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Greece-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Central Greece geography stubs|Central Greece geography stubs]]''' {{tl|CentralGreece-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Central Macedonia geography stubs|Central Macedonia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|CentralMacedonia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Crete geography stubs|Crete geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Crete-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Epirus geography stubs|Epirus geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Epirus-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Peloponnese geography stubs|Peloponnese geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Peloponnese-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Aegean geography stubs|South Aegean geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthAegean-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Thessaly geography stubs|Thessaly geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Thessaly-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Hungary geography stubs|Hungary geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hungary-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Bács-Kiskun geography stubs|Bács-Kiskun geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bacs-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Békés county geography stubs|Békés county geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bekes-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Csongrád county geography stubs|Csongrád county geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Csongrad-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hajdú-Bihar geography stubs|Hajdú-Bihar geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hajdu-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Jász-Nagykun-Szolnok geography stubs|Jász-Nagykun-Szolnok geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Jasz-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg geography stubs|Szabolcs-Szatmár-Bereg geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Szabolcs-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Iceland geography stubs|Iceland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Iceland-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ireland geography stubs|Ireland geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]]) - {{tl|Ireland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:County Cork geography stubs|County Cork geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Cork-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:County Dublin geography stubs|County Dublin geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Dublin-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:County Galway geography stubs|County Galway geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Galway-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:County Kerry geography stubs|County Kerry geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kerry-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:County Mayo geography stubs|County Mayo geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Mayo-geo-stub}}

***<small>see also NI-geo-stub child below</small>

**'''[[:Category:Italy geography stubs|Italy geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Italy-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Abruzzo geography stubs|Abruzzo geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Abruzzo-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aosta Valley geography stubs|Aosta Valley geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Aosta-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Basilicata geography stubs|Basilicata geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Basilicata-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Calabrian geography stubs|Calabrian geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Calabria-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Campanian geography stubs|Campanian geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Campania-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Emilia-Romagna geography stubs|Emilia-Romagna geography stubs]]''' {{tl|EmiliaRomagna-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Friuli-Venezia Giulia geography stubs|Friuli-Venezia Giulia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|FriuliVeneziaGiulia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lazio geography stubs|Lazio geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Lazio-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Liguria geography stubs|Liguria geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Liguria-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lombardy geography stubs|Lombardy geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Lombardy-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Marche geography stubs|Marche geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Marche-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Molise geography stubs|Molise geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Molise-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Piedmont geography stubs|Piedmont geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Piedmont-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Alessandria geography stubs|Province of Alessandria geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Alessandria-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Asti geography stubs|Province of Asti geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Asti-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Biella geography stubs|Province of Biella geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Biella-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Cuneo geography stubs|Province of Cuneo geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Cuneo-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Novara geography stubs|Province of Novara geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Novara-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Turin geography stubs|Province of Turin geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Turin-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Verbano-Cusio-Ossola geography stubs|Province of Verbano-Cusio-Ossola geography stubs]]''' {{tl|VerbanoCusioOssola-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Province of Vercelli geography stubs|Province of Vercelli geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Vercelli-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Puglia geography stubs|Puglia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Puglia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sardinia geography stubs|Sardinia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Sardinia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sicily geography stubs|Sicily geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Sicily-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Trentino-South Tyrol geography stubs|Trentino-South Tyrol geography stubs]]''' {{tl|TrentinoSouthTyrol-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tuscany geography stubs|Tuscany geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Tuscany-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Umbria geography stubs|Umbria geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Umbria-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Veneto geography stubs|Veneto geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Veneto-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Latvia geography stubs|Latvia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Latvia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Lithuania geography stubs|Lithuania geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Lithuania-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Luxembourg geography stubs|Luxembourg geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Luxembourg-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Malta geography stubs|Malta geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Malta-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Republic of Macedonia geography stubs|Republic of Macedonia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Macedonia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Moldova geography stubs|Moldova geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Moldova-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Montenegro geography stubs|Montenegro geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Montenegro-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Netherlands geography stubs|Netherlands geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Netherlands-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Drenthe geography stubs|Drenthe geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Drenthe-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Dutch Limburg geography stubs|Dutch Limburg geography stubs]]''' {{tl|LimburgNL-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Friesland geography stubs|Friesland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Friesland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Gelderland geography stubs|Gelderland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Gelderland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Groningen geography stubs|Groningen geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Groningen-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:North Brabant geography stubs|North Brabant geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthBrabant-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:North Holland geography stubs|North Holland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthHolland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Overijssel geography stubs|Overijssel geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Overijssel-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Holland geography stubs|South Holland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthHolland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Utrecht geography stubs|Utrecht geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Utrecht-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Zeeland geography stubs|Zeeland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Zeeland-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Norway geography stubs|Norway geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Norway-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Akershus geography stubs|Akershus geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Akershus-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aust-Agder geography stubs|Aust-Agder geography stubs]]''' {{tl|AustAgder-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Buskerud geography stubs|Buskerud geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Buskerud-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Finnmark geography stubs|Finnmark geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Finnmark-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hedmark geography stubs|Hedmark geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hedmark-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hordaland geography stubs|Hordaland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hordaland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Møre og Romsdal geography stubs|Møre og Romsdal geography stubs]]''' {{tl|MøreRomsdal-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nordland geography stubs|Nordland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Nordland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Nord-Trøndelag geography stubs|Nord-Trøndelag geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NordTrøndelag-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oppland geography stubs|Oppland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Oppland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oslo geography stubs|Oslo geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Oslo-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Rogaland geography stubs|Rogaland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Rogaland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sogn og Fjordane geography stubs|Sogn og Fjordane geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SognFjordane-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Sør-Trøndelag geography stubs|Sør-Trøndelag geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SørTrøndelag-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Telemark geography stubs|Telemark geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Telemark-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Troms geography stubs|Troms geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Troms-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Vest-Agder geography stubs|Vest-Agder geography stubs]]''' {{tl|VestAgder-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Vestfold geography stubs|Vestfold geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Vestfold-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Østfold geography stubs|Østfold geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Østfold-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Poland geography stubs|Poland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Poland-geo-stub}}

*** '''[[:Category:Lower Silesia geography stubs| Lower Silesia geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|LowerSilesian-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kuyavian-Pomeranian geography stubs| Kuyavian-Pomeranian geography stubs ]]''' }} {{tl|KuyavianPomeranian-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lublin geography stubs| Lublin geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Lublin-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lubusz geography stubs|Lubusz geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Lubusz-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Łódź geography stubs| Łódź geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Lodz-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Lesser Poland geography stubs| Lesser Poland geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|LesserPoland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Masovian geography stubs| Masovian geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Masovian-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Opole geography stubs| Opole geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Opole-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Subcarpathian geography stubs| Subcarpathian geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Subcarpathian-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Podlasie geography stubs| Podlasie geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Podlasie-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Pomeranian geography stubs| Pomeranian geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Pomeranian-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Silesian geography stubs| Silesian geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Silesian-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Świętokrzyskie geography stubs| Świętokrzyskie geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|Swietokrzyskie-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Warmian-Masurian geography stubs| Warmian-Masurian geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|WarmianMasurian-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Greater Poland geography stubs| Greater Poland geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|GreaterPoland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:West Pomeranian geography stubs| West Pomeranian geography stubs ]]''' {{tl|WestPomeranian-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Portugal geography stubs|Portugal geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Portugal-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Azores geography stubs|Azores geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Azores-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Romania geography stubs|Romania geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Romania-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Russia geography stubs|Russia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Russia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Central Russia geography stubs|Central Russia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Central-Russia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Northwestern Russia geography stubs|Northwestern Russia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Northwest-Russia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Russian Far East geography stubs|Russian Far East geography stubs]]''' {{tl|FarEast-Russia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Siberia geography stubs|Siberia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Siberia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Southern Russia geography stubs|Southern Russia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|South-Russia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Urals Federal District geography stubs|Urals Federal District geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Urals-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Volga Federal District geography stubs|Volga Federal District geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Volga-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Serbia geography stubs|Serbia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Serbia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Slovakia geography stubs|Slovakia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Slovakia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Slovenia geography stubs|Slovenia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Slovenia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Spain geography stubs|Spain geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Spain-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Andalusia geography stubs|Andalusia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Andalusia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aragon geography stubs|Aragon geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Aragon-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Asturias geography stubs|Asturias geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Asturias-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Basque geography stubs|Basque geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Basque-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Castile-La Mancha geography stubs|Castile-La Mancha geography stubs]]''' {{tl|CastileLaMancha-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Castile-Leon geography stubs|Castile-Leon geography stubs]]''' {{tl|CastileLeon-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Catalonia geography stubs|Catalonia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Catalonia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Extremadura geography stubs|Extremadura geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Extremadura-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Galicia geography stubs|Galicia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Galicia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Madrid geography stubs|Madrid geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Madrid-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Navarre geography stubs|Navarre geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Navarre-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Valencia geography stubs|Valencia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Valencia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Sweden geography stubs|Sweden geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Sweden-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Switzerland geography stubs|Switzerland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Switzerland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Aargau geography stubs|Aargau geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Aargau-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Canton of Berne geography stubs|Canton of Berne geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Berne-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Canton of Jura geography stubs|Canton of Jura geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Jura-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Canton of Lucerne geography stubs|Canton of Lucerne geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Lucerne-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Canton of Neuchâtel geography stubs|Canton of Neuchâtel geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Neuchâtel-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Grisons geography stubs|Grisons geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Grisons-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Vaud geography stubs|Vaud geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Vaud-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ukraine geography stubs|Ukraine geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Ukraine-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:United Kingdom geography stubs|United Kingdom geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|UK-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:England geography stubs|England geography stubs]]''' {{tl|England-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Bedfordshire geography stubs|Bedfordshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bedfordshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Berkshire geography stubs|Berkshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Berkshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Bristol geography stubs|Bristol geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bristol-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Buckinghamshire geography stubs|Buckinghamshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Buckinghamshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Cambridgeshire geography stubs|Cambridgeshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Cambridgeshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Cheshire geography stubs|Cheshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Cheshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Cornwall geography stubs|Cornwall geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Cornwall-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Cumbria geography stubs|Cumbria geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Cumbria-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Derbyshire geography stubs|Derbyshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Derbyshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Devon geography stubs|Devon geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Devon-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Dorset geography stubs|Dorset geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Dorset-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:County Durham geography stubs|County Durham geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Durham-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:East Riding of Yorkshire geography stubs|East Riding of Yorkshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|EastRiding-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:East Sussex geography stubs|East Sussex geography stubs]]''' {{tl|EastSussex-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Essex geography stubs|Essex geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Essex-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Gloucestershire geography stubs|Gloucestershire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Gloucestershire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Hampshire geography stubs|Hampshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Hampshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Herefordshire geography stubs|Herefordshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Herefordshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Hertfordshire geography stubs|Hertfordshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Hertfordshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Isle of Wight geography stubs|Isle of Wight geography stubs]]''' {{tl|IsleofWight-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Kent geography stubs|Kent geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kent-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Lancashire geography stubs|Lancashire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Lancashire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Leicestershire geography stubs|Leicestershire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Leicestershire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Lincolnshire geography stubs|Lincolnshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Lincolnshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:London geography stubs|London geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|London-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Greater Manchester geography stubs|Greater Manchester geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Manchester-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Merseyside geography stubs|Merseyside geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Merseyside-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Norfolk geography stubs|Norfolk geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Norfolk-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Northamptonshire geography stubs|Northamptonshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Northamptonshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Northumberland geography stubs|Northumberland geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Northumberland-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:North Yorkshire geography stubs|North Yorkshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthYorkshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Nottinghamshire geography stubs|Nottinghamshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Nottinghamshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Oxfordshire geography stubs|Oxfordshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Oxfordshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Rutland geography stubs|Rutland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Rutland-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Shropshire geography stubs|Shropshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Shropshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Somerset geography stubs|Somerset geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Somerset-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Staffordshire geography stubs|Staffordshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Staffordshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:South Yorkshire geography stubs|South Yorkshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthYorkshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Suffolk geography stubs|Suffolk geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Suffolk-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Surrey geography stubs|Surrey geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Surrey-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Warwickshire geography stubs|Warwickshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Warwickshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:West Midlands geography stubs|West Midlands geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|WestMidlands-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:West Sussex geography stubs|West Sussex geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|WestSussex-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:West Yorkshire geography stubs|West Yorkshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|WestYorkshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Wiltshire geography stubs|Wiltshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Wiltshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Worcestershire geography stubs|Worcestershire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Worcestershire-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Northern Ireland geography stubs|Northern Ireland geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NI-geo-stub}}

****{{tl|Belfast-geo-stub}} ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Belfast|*W]]) feeds into this category

***'''[[:Category:Scotland geography stubs|Scotland geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Scotland-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Argyll and Bute geography stubs|Argyll and Bute geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Argyll-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Glasgow geography stubs|Glasgow geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Glasgow-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Highland geography stubs|Highland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Highland-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Western Isles geography stubs|Western Isles geography stubs]]''' {{tl|WesternIsles-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Wales geography stubs|Wales geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Wales-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Anglesey geography stubs|Anglesey geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Anglesey-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Carmarthenshire geography stubs|Carmarthenshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Carmarthenshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Ceredigion geography stubs|Ceredigion geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Ceredigion-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Clwyd geography stubs|Clwyd geography stubs]]'''

*****{{tl|Conwy-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Denbighshire-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Flintshire-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Wrexham-geo-stub}} feed into this category

****'''[[:Category:Glamorgan geography stubs|Glamorgan geography stubs]]'''

*****{{tl|Cardiff-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Rhondda-Cynon-Taff-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Merthyr-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Bridgend-geo-stub}}, {{tl|NeathPortTalbot-geo-stub}}, {{tl|ValeofGlamorgan-geo-stub}} feed into this category

*****'''[[:Category:Swansea geography stubs|Swansea geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Swansea-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Gwent geography stubs|Gwent geography stubs]]'''

*****{{tl|Torfaen-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Monmouthshire-geo-stub}}, {{tl|Caerphilly-geo-stub}} feed into this category

*****'''[[:Category:Newport geography stubs|Newport geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Newport-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Gwynedd geography stubs|Gwynedd geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Gwynedd-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Pembrokeshire geography stubs|Pembrokeshire geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Pembrokeshire-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Powys geography stubs|Powys geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Powys-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Channel Islands geography stubs|Channel Islands geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|ChannelIslands-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Isle of Man geography stubs|Isle of Man geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|IsleofMan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:British Atlantic territories geography stubs|British Atlantic territories geography stubs]]''' {{tl|UK-Atlantic-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Bermuda geography stubs|Bermuda geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Bermuda-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Falkland Islands geography stubs|Falkland Islands geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Falklands-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands geography stubs|South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthGeorgia-geo-stub}}

=====North and Central American geography=====

:No, it does not belong at the top of the article. a vast majority of it will end up in that section. That section is the basis for the entire article, hence the merge tag in the first place. Leave it in the section, or rewrite the entire article. You may think you will put the article wherever you please, but the reality is it will be edited & re-edited until it is actually apt, & the natural place for the entire article wil be in said section. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 00:47, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''[[:Category:Bermuda geography stubs|Bermuda geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Bermuda-geo-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Canada geography stubs|Canada geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Canada-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Alberta geography stubs|Alberta geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Alberta|*W]] | {{tl|Alberta-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:British Columbia geography stubs|British Columbia geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|BritishColumbia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Manitoba geography stubs|Manitoba geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Manitoba-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New Brunswick geography stubs|New Brunswick geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NewBrunswick-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Newfoundland and Labrador geography stubs|Newfoundland and Labrador geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Newfoundland-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Northwest Territories geography stubs|Northwest Territories geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthwestTerritories-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nova Scotia geography stubs|Nova Scotia geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|NovaScotia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nunavut geography stubs|Nunavut geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Nunavut-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ontario geography stubs|Ontario geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Ontario|*W]] | {{tl|Ontario-geo-stub}}}

***'''[[:Category:Eastern Ontario geography stubs|Eastern Ontario geography stubs]]''' {{tl|EasternOntario-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Golden Horseshoe geography stubs|Golden Horseshoe geography stubs]]''' {{tl|GoldenHorseshoe-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Northern Ontario geography stubs|Northern Ontario geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthernOntario-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Toronto geography stubs|Toronto geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Toronto-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Western Ontario geography stubs|Western Ontario geography stubs]]''' {{tl|WesternOntario-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Prince Edward Island geography stubs|Prince Edward Island geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|PrinceEdwardIsland-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Quebec geography stubs|Quebec geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | {{tl|Quebec-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Saskatchewan geography stubs|Saskatchewan geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Saskatchewan-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Yukon Territory geography stubs|Yukon Territory geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Yukon-geo-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Caribbean geography stubs|Caribbean geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Caribbean-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Bahamas geography stubs|Bahamas geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Bahamas-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Barbados geography stubs|Barbados geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Barbados-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Cuba geography stubs|Cuba geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Cuba-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Dominica geography stubs|Dominica geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Dominica-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Dominican Republic geography stubs|Dominican Republic geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|DominicanRepublic-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Jamaica geography stubs|Jamaica geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Jamaica-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Puerto Rico geography stubs|Puerto Rico geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|PuertoRico-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Trinidad and Tobago geography stubs|Trinidad and Tobago geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Trinidad-geo-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Central America geography stubs|Central America geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|CentralAm-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Belize geography stubs|Belize geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Belize-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Costa Rica geography stubs|Costa Rica geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|CostaRica-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Costa Rican protected area stubs|Costa Rican protected area stubs]]''' - {{tl|CostaRica-protected-area-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:El Salvador geography stubs|El Salvador geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|ElSalvador-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Guatemala geography stubs|Guatemala geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Guatemala-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Honduras geography stubs|Honduras geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Honduras-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Nicaragua geography stubs|Nicaragua geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Nicaragua-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Panama geography stubs|Panama geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Panama-geo-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Greenland geography stubs|Greenland geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Greenland-geo-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:Mexico geography stubs|Mexico geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Mexico-geo-stub}}

*'''[[:Category:United States geography stubs|United States geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|US-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Midwestern United States geography stubs|Midwestern United States geography stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Illinois geography stubs|Illinois geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Illinois-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Indiana geography stubs|Indiana geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Indiana-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kansas geography stubs|Kansas geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kansas-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Michigan geography stubs|Michigan geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Michigan-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Minnesota geography stubs|Minnesota geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Minnesota-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Missouri geography stubs|Missouri geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Missouri-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Ohio geography stubs|Ohio geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Ohio-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Dakota geography stubs|South Dakota geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|SouthDakota-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Wisconsin geography stubs|Wisconsin geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Wisconsin|*W]] | - {{tl|Wisconsin-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Northeastern United States geography stubs|Northeastern United States geography stubs]]''' - Container category, so no associated template.

***'''[[:Category:Connecticut geography stubs|Connecticut geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Connecticut-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Maine geography stubs|Maine geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Maine-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Massachusetts geography stubs|Massachusetts geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Massachusetts-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New Hampshire geography stubs|New Hampshire geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewHampshire-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New Jersey geography stubs|New Jersey geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewJersey-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New York geography stubs|New York geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewYork-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Pennsylvania geography stubs|Pennsylvania geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Pennsylvania-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Rhode Island geography stubs|Rhode Island geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|RhodeIsland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Vermont geography stubs|Vermont geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Vermont-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Southern United States geography stubs| Southern United States geography stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Washington, D.C. geography stubs|Washington, D.C. geography stubs]]''' ({{tl|WashingtonDC-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Florida geography stubs|Florida geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Florida|*W]]) - {{tl|Florida-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Georgia (U.S. state) geography stubs|Georgia (U.S. state) geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|GeorgiaUS-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Kentucky geography stubs|Kentucky geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Kentucky-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category: Louisiana geography stubs|Louisiana geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Louisiana-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Maryland geography stubs|Maryland geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Maryland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Mississippi geography stubs|Mississippi geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Mississippi-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:North Carolina geography stubs|North Carolina geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NorthCarolina-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oklahoma geography stubs|Oklahoma geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Oklahoma-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Carolina geography stubs|South Carolina geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|SouthCarolina-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tennessee geography stubs|Tennessee geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Tennessee-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Texas geography stubs|Texas geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Texas-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Virginia geography stubs|Virginia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Virginia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:West Virginia geography stubs|West Virginia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|WestVirginia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Western United States geography stubs|Western United States geography stubs]]'''

***'''[[:Category:Alaska geography stubs|Alaska geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Alaska-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Arizona geography stubs|Arizona geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Arizona-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:California geography stubs|California geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | [[Wikipedia:WikiProject California|*W]] | - {{tl|California-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Southern California geography stubs|Southern California geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Southern California|*W]] | - {{tl|California-south-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Colorado geography stubs|Colorado geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Colorado-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Hawaii geography stubs|Hawaii geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Hawaii-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Montana geography stubs|Montana geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Montana-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New Mexico geography stubs|New Mexico geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewMexico-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Oregon geography stubs|Oregon geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Oregon-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Utah geography stubs|Utah geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Stub sorting/Stub redirects|*R]] | - {{tl|Utah-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Washington geography stubs|Washington geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Washington-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Wyoming geography stubs|Wyoming geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Wyoming-geo-stub}}

=====Oceanian geography=====

::And a resounding "no" to the entire merge idea from me. Improving the section here, sure. But merge, no. Read what I have to say in that Article's Talk pages. It stands on its own as a valid article in its own right.[[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 00:57, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''[[:Category:Oceania geography stubs|Oceania geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Oceania-geo-stub}}

**<small>{{tl|Nauru-geo-stub}} feeds into this category</small>

**'''[[:Category:Australia geography stubs|Australia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Australia-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Australian Capital Territory geography stubs|Australian Capital Territory geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Canberra|*W]] | {{tl|Canberra-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Queensland geography stubs|Queensland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Queensland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:New South Wales geography stubs|New South Wales geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NewSouthWales-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Sydney geography stubs|Sydney geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Sydney|*W]] | {{tl|Sydney-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Northern Territory geography stubs|Northern Territory geography stubs]]''' {{tl|NorthernTerritory-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:South Australia geography stubs|South Australia geography stubs]]''' {{tl|SouthAustralia-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Adelaide geography stubs|Adelaide geography stubs]]''' ([[Wikipedia:WikiProject Adelaide|*W]] | {{tl|Adelaide-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Tasmania geography stubs|Tasmania geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Tasmania|*W]] | {{tl|Tasmania-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Victoria geography stubs|Victoria geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Victoria-geo-stub}}

****'''[[:Category:Melbourne geography stubs|Melbourne geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Melbourne|*W]] | {{tl|Melbourne-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Western Australia geography stubs|Western Australia geography stubs]]''' [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Western Australia|*W]] | {{tl|WesternAustralia-geo-stub}}

***<small>Other child: {{tl|Australia-road-stub}} in [[#Transport|Transport]] under {{tl|Road-stub}}</small>

**'''[[:Category:Fiji geography stubs|Fiji geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Fiji-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:French Polynesia geography stubs|French Polynesia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|FrenchPolynesia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New Caledonia geography stubs|New Caledonia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NewCaledonia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:New Zealand geography stubs|New Zealand geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|NZ-geo-stub}}

***<small>{{tl|BayofPlenty-geo-stub}}}} {{tl|Gisborne-geo-stub}} {{tl|Hawke'sBay-geo-stub}} {{tl|ManawatuWanganui-geo-stub}} {{tl|Marlborough-geo-stub}} {{tl|Nelson-geo-stub}} {{tl|Northland-geo-stub}} {{tl|Taranaki-geo-stub}} {{tl|Tasman-geo-stub}} {{tl|Wellington-geo-stub}} all feed into this category</small>

***'''[[:Category:Auckland Region geography stubs|Auckland Region geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Auckland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Canterbury, New Zealand geography stubs|Canterbury, New Zealand geography stubs]]''' {{tl|CanterburyNZ-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Otago geography stubs|Otago geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Otago-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Southland geography stubs|Southland geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Southland-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Waikato geography stubs|Waikato geography stubs]]''' {{tl|Waikato-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:West Coast, New Zealand geography stubs|West Coast, New Zealand geography stubs]]''' {{tl|WestCoastNZ-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Papua New Guinea geography stubs|Papua New Guinea geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|PapuaNewGuinea-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Samoa geography stubs|Samoa geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Samoa-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Solomon Islands geography stubs|Solomon Islands geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Solomons-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Tuvalu geography stubs|Tuvalu geography stubs]]''' - {{tl| Tuvalu-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Vanuatu geography stubs|Vanuatu geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Vanuatu-geo-stub}}

=====South American geography=====

:::That section WAS the basis for the entire article, the article is being fixed so it is not. Also it is indisputable that some issues like the Taxil Hoax are parts of freemasonry history, and will eventually need to be adressed in the "History of Freemasonry" section. "History" does not mean "History sans contravercial issues". <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:04, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''[[:Category:South America geography stubs|South America geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|SouthAm-geo-stub}}

::::I understand that the criticisms section was the origin of the Anti-Freemasonry article. That is besides the point. That was then, this is now. There are two reasons for not having a merge: 1) this article is still TOO LONG. Adding in more information will make it even LONGER. In fact, to shorten it some sections have to be split off into their own sub-articles. The key is to do so in a NPOV manner, highlighting the information here fairly and accurately, and clearly pointing the way to the sub-article that explains it more clearly. The complexity of Anti-Masonry makes it perfect for such a sub-article. 2) Because Anti-Masonry ''is'' such a complex and interesting subject, it is worthy of an article on its own merits. Not as a POV fork, but as a companion to this article. Now, if you feel that something vital is missing from the criticisms section of THIS article, then include it. But don't merge the two. Also, as I have stated before, I am working on a new History of Freemasonry article. It is going to cover much more than is discussed here (and it is going to be written as NPOV as I can as an historian. I hope that, when I am done and the first draft is posted, we will shorten the history section here as well. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 03:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Argentina geography stubs|Argentina geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Argentina-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Bolivia geography stubs|Bolivia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Bolivia-geo-stub}}

:Personally I think the debate is moot. Freemasonry is too big a subject to be captured in a single article anyway so there is a requirement for an overarching article supported by a number of companion articles, perhaps in the portal structure used for other areas. Something as basic as Masculine/ Feminine/ Androgynous which is tying Seraphim in knots, whilst there is a co-Masonry article that's not complete either. This is a collection of organisations which are spread globally without a single unifying approach. Merely merging two articles doesn't deal with the problem of scale or complexity.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 08:51, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Brazil geography stubs|Brazil geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Brazil-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Amazonas (Brazilian state) geography stubs|Amazonas (Brazilian state) geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|AmazonasBR-geo-stub}}

Moot point anyway. This article is already long, & isn't going to be of an acceptable length after merging the Anti- article. Oh, then, at this rate, the Lodge article, & the Co-Freemasonry article, etc etc. So I'll just wait for the tag to come off. As it should be doing soon...[[User:Grye|Grye]] 09:35, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

***'''[[:Category:Espírito Santo geography stubs|Espírito Santo geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|EspiritoSanto-geo-stub}}

***'''[[:Category:Minas Gerais geography stubs|Minas Gerais geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|MinasGerais-geo-stub}}

:PoV issues must be dealt with, article length is only a guideline. Also other sections of this page can easially be moved off to sub pages and summarized. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:39, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

***'''[[:Category:São Paulo (state) geography stubs|São Paulo (state) geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|SaoPauloState-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Chile geography stubs|Chile geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Chile-geo-stub}}

::Article length is not only a guideline, it is a significant issue, as many web browsers cannot handle them after a certain size.The POV issues will ''always'' be there, as long as critics feel that a Masonic editor ''cannot'' write anything NPOV, so I for one am not holding my breath on that one. & ''...moved off to sub pages and summarized"'' is pretty much all they've ever been. It looks like a whole new structure is comming about, & that'll be good, & interesting, & yes like you say this article will change a bit with those changes, but not quite as much, I think, as some editors here seem to think/hope. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 09:45, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Colombia geography stubs|Colombia geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Colombia-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Ecuador geography stubs|Ecuador geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Ecuador-geo-stub}}

::: If you read [[WP:SIZE]] it states that the size rules are no longer "hard and fast" because people can now edit by section, and the browsers that had issues have been updated. Compare that to [[NPOV]] which is "absolute and non-negotiable". I'm not going to debate the merger here or the POV'ness of this page. I'm just trying to make the point that ''if'' there is a POV issue with a page, if solving that issue requires a page to go over 50k, the page size issue takes a back seat to the POV issue. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:50, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Guyana geography stubs|Guyana geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Guyana-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Paraguay geography stubs|Paraguay geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Paraguay-geo-stub}}

Ok just a little update. JASpencer and a few others are continuing to work on Anti-Masonry (which the former Anti-Freemasonry page once was). Also alot of the history from the Anti-Masonry page has been merged into "History of Freemasonry" which will eventually make it's way into the "History of Freemasonry" section here. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 07:08, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Peru geography stubs|Peru geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Peru-geo-stub}}

**'''[[:Category:Suriname geography stubs|Suriname geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Suriname-geo-stub}}

==[[WP:VAND|Vandalism accusations]]==

**'''[[:Category:Uruguay geography stubs|Uruguay geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Uruguay-geo-stub}}

SeraphimXI, I'm a little teed off with you. I find your vandalism accusations to be in poor taste. [[WP:CIVIL|Please be civil]]. We need to work together to make this article work. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 01:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

**'''[[:Category:Venezuela geography stubs|Venezuela geography stubs]]''' - {{tl|Venezuela-geo-stub}}

:I find them to to violate [[WP:POINT]] as well. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 01:02, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::I am being civil. The merger debate is not only about one section, that is why the merge tag has been at the top of the article for so long. I've explained why it belongs at the top, and the responces are that it belongs in a section since the majority of the merger will end up in that section. By admitting that the majority and not the entierty of the change will end up in that section shows that placing the tag in that section is incorrect. After having that explained, after the users admit the merger is not entirely based around that section, and then they still insist on moving it to that section, that is called vandalism. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::I'd also like to point out that the violator of [[WP:Point]] would be whoever moves the merge tag from the top of the page where it has been for weeks. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:09, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::: Forgive me if i am wrong but arent tags suppose to be a majority decision? [[User:Tutmosis|Tutmosis]] 01:16, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::: That is why it is the Disputed tag. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::Just because it has been in a certain place for weeks does ''not'' mean that it hasn't been in the ''wrong'' place for weeks. & there's no violation in moving it to the section, but rather in '''removing''' it w/o consensus. Another violation would be a 3RR on your part, ''if someone else were to replace the tag'', & you were to edit it agian. Oh, & how are you suddenly such an authority, [[Talk:Freemasonry/Archive_13#Mason_Secrets.3F|after making the statement]] ''"I came here randomly, not knowing anything about the masons"'' on 29 January? [[User:Grye|Grye]] 01:21, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::People love quoting that line don't they :) It's talking in the past tense. Also there is no 3rr since it is vandalism. The merger tag was placed on the page in good faith, and the merge discussion is about merging the Anti-Freemasonry page into this page, not the Anti-Freemasonry page into the specific section. Also Consensus involves working together to get everyone's issues addressed. Something that has not been done yet. I'd also like to point out Grye that you yourself said "No, it does not belong at the top of the article. a vast majority of it will end up in that section" you said "a vast majority" which means that you agree that some of it will not end up in that section. Moving the tag from the top of the article to the top of a section changes the meaning of the tag from "It has been suggested that this article be merged with Anti-Freemasonry" to "It has been suggested that this section be merged with Anti-Freemasonry". The second statement is untrue. If you would like to suggest that that page be merged with that section, then you are entitled to do so, but that does not change the fact that it has also been suggested that the anti-freemasonry article be merged with the article as a whole. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

#Yakknow, the flipside to your arguement is that if I'm proven not Vandalist, then your actions ''are'' vandalist.

#'''your''' talk is about merging articles, but the article to be merged is a section of the article to be merged into. Hence the statement ''"Main article: Anti-Freemasonry "'' right under the section, [[Freemasonry#Criticism.2C_persecution.2C_and_prosecution|Criticism, persecution, and prosecution

]]. Fact. Period, the end. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 01:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:Anti-Freemasonry is not simply "Criticism, Persecution, and Prosecution" of freemasons. If that was the case the merger would have been carried out a while ago since it would be an undisputable POV fork. People on the Anti-Freemasonry page are arguing that it is it's own seperate entitity away from Freemasonry much like Anti-Semitisim. According to Chiterrel "This is not a content fork, Anti-Freemasonry is a distinct movement which encompasses alot of different views." according to Blueboar "Anti-Masonry has a long and complex history, just as Masonry does. It has taken many forms over the years, and many different groups (each for their own individual reasons) have come out against the Fraternity. That in itself makes the topic worthy of an article. it is similar in scope to anti-semitism." according to MSJapan "It really is the Masonic equivalent of anti-Semitism. ". If you would like to argue that Anti-Freemasonry is only that then that is perfectly fine, however that argument has not been presented yet, and would problary end up with the opposite effect you are hoping for. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:55, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::Exactly what part of ''"Main article: Anti-Freemasonry"'' don't you understand? [[User:Grye|Grye]]

:::Oh I understand it perfectly, however if you read my edits, that's what the Anti-Freemasonry article used to be. It's out of date information, if you want to remove it please do so. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 03:22, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::Yeah, uh, what is Anti-Freemasonry, if not Criticism of Freemasonry? [[User:Grye|Grye]] 03:31, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::"Anti-Freemasonry is not simply "Criticism, Persecution, and Prosecution" of freemasons." OK... but that just strengthens the argument for NOT merging the two articles... if it is more than just that, then that article is its own thing and not a sub-section of this article. Again, if you feel a section is incomplete, edit it and improve it. But a merge is not the answer. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 03:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::I was just quoting you not stating my opinion, I don't feel Anti-Freemasonry has enough content to stand on it's own and it should eventually be re-incorporated into this article, however that is a discussion that will happen eventually, and not in this section. This section was about moving the tag from covering the entire article to covering just one section, I was trying to point out that grye's argument was actually the reverse of what he intended to argue. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 03:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::We had this discussion on the Anti-Freemasonry talk page. According to other editors of this page it "is a distinct movement which encompasses alot of different views" ~Chiterrel, it "has a long and complex history, just as Masonry does. It has taken many forms over the years, and many different groups (each for their own individual reasons) have come out against the Fraternity. That in itself makes the topic worthy of an article. it is similar in scope to anti-semitisim" ~ BlueBoar, and "It really is the Masonic equivalient of anti-Semitism" ~ MSJapan, these were all their responces when presented with the same argument by JASpencer. (I also mentioned this in my post a few up) <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 03:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::So... Uh... How is all that ''not'' <U>criticism</U> of Freemasonry? [[User:Grye|Grye]] 04:23, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Go read the Anti-Freemasonry talk page for the arguments over there, you're actually arguing that the Anti-Freemasonry page is a PoV fork which I'm sure is not your intent. The only thing relevant to this section is that I feel that some of the content on Anti-Freemasonry will eventually end up belonging in the History section on this page, therefore tagging only one section is incorrect. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 04:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

==[[Deletion of Scratchpad]]==

Who deleted the "scratchpad"?

There was alot of proposed info with references on that page, what happened to it?

Wasn't the whole point of creating it because the Masonic Editors didn't like to have 'Masonic Secrets' and other criticisms of Freemasonry on this discussion page?

Now someone has gone and deleted it and erased all the material? Real fair and npov situation you Masonic and Masonic-Wannabe Editors are running here.[[User:Humanun Genus|Humanun Genus]] 02:51, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:According to the deletion log "18:19, February 11, 2006 Delirium deleted "Talk:Freemasonry/Scratchpad" (content was: '== Crapola by the page full, or when POVs go mad=== Suggested Additions to Freemasonry Page===Criticism of Masonry's Involvement in Politics (Or....') " it looks like vandalism on it by Skulls 'n' Femurs was not removed, and a delete happy admin deleted it. I'd like to point out that the information on that page was created by a banned user (who said that "Freemasonry isn't Satanic, it is Satanism" and he stated that he is part of the very important war against freemason propaganda), and was entirely unverifiable and POV(the contents of the secrets cannot be verified). I will be working on a section to address the masonic secrets in a NPOV way, please check back in here tomorrowish (when i get the first draft done) and join in the discussion about the section, the more editors we have the better the final result will be. I can assure you, I am not a Mason, and I will work to get a NPOV Factual section in the article. If you look on Archive 13 the section called "Masonic Secrets" you can see the start of the discussion on what I intend to do. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 03:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::The situation on this page and it's related side pages is quite unacceptable. The main article is very poorly written and extremely pov towards Freemasonry. There seems to be a clear pattern of abuse and bad faith actions by Masonic Editors on these pages.[[User:Humanun Genus|Humanun Genus]] 03:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::The information you want included is completly invalid and does not belong in this article. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 03:20, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::Is that you, [[User:Lightbringer|Lightbringer]]?

:::[[User:Grye|Grye]] 03:33, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::Do we need a partial lock on the Talk Page too? [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 03:37, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

Sorry about that. I had seen the recently-created [[Freemasonry/Scratchpad]], which was an obvious candidate for deletion, and assumed [[Talk:Freemasonry/Scratchpad]] was just its talk page (should've checked the history). I've restored it. --[[User:Delirium|Delirium]] 04:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

== '''Status of the Disabled in Freemasonry''' ==

The information contained here is misleading. Part of the problem in defining Masonic practices and beliefs is that they vary from one jurisdiction to another. However, there still seems to be some confusion over the general policies of Masonry. This can be somewhat cleared up however in that all regular Masonic Lodges have and publish complete sets of laws. These are voted upon by members in a given jurisdiction at annual legislative sessions.

With regard to the disabled in Freemasonry, we have a clear example of a published law stating exactly what the rules are. In the California Masonic Code, as an example from one jurisdiction, an applicant is required to be free of a physical or mental impairment that would keep him from learning the principles of Masonry. There is nothing about someone simply being disabled. In fairness, such practices may be included when discussing Masonry's historic practices, but not modern ones. --[[User:Cauil|Cauil]] 07:48, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:Alot of the information on the scratch pad came from a anti-mason fanatic that is banned from editing mason related pages. However apparently deleting false information on a scratch pad is not proper wikiettiqute. I know from personal experience that both colored people and disabled people are allowed to become freemasons. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 07:59, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

=== ...& women, regular Freemasonry, & Co-Freemasonry... ===

::And women, despite your continued assertions in the face of the evidence. http://www.hfaf.org/ [[User:82.109.66.151|82.109.66.151]] 08:14, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::Sorry that was me[[User:ALR|ALR]] 08:15, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::Alr we have gone over this too many times. I cannot become a member of the same masonic body that this page describes. I can become a member of a copycat organization with alot of the same teachings and ideals. However I can never be considered equal to someone in say a UGLE lodge, for example there is no possible way for me to go sit with you in your lodge. OES may be closely related to freemasonry, but the fact is it is not freemasonry. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 08:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::I am not suggesting OES, whilst I am not a member anything I've seen of it doesn't strike me as interesting. I also wouldn't recognise OES as Freemasonry anyway. However there are both feminine and androgynous forms of Freemasony which I would recognise as being Freemasonry in terms of their core content and that is what I would recommend. HFAF is Feminine and on their links page is a link to two forms of androgynous Masonry, in the UK. I know that Androgynous FM exists in the US as well and whilst I don't have access to the information would suggest that Feminine xists as well. User:Vidkun has already said that he has access to appropriate contacts in the US for at least the Androgynous form. Your persistence in asserting that OES is in any way comparable is obstructing the debate.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 08:34, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::: Ok then, what group can I join, so I can go sit in with you or Vidkun at lodge. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 08:43, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::That's a wholly different issue. Should you wish to become a Freemason, there are routes which are open to you. Should you wish to sit in lodge with Vidkun or I then that would assume either of us wish to sit in lodge with you. Since neither of us wish to sit in androgynous lodges then it's a non-starter.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 08:46, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::: Why can't I sit with you in your lodge? <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 08:53, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::Because I chose not to join an Androgynous order[[User:ALR|ALR]] 09:01, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::: I never said anything about an Androgynous order, I want to go sit with you in your lodge. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:02, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::: Why?[[User:ALR|ALR]] 09:06, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::::: Why not? You are claiming that I can join Freemasonry, part of freemasonry is the ability to visit other lodges. I want to go visit your lodge, what group can I join. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:10, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::::: How much do you understand about initiatory traditions and the effect of the initiatory experience, and how that is affected by the nature of the participant group? What does 'sitting in lodge' actually mean to the participants? FM is not a social club, until you stop thinking of it as such then I can't make clear to you what the issues are surrounding the experience. You can become a Freemason, you just can't attend a Masculine Lodge. Compare with Catholicism and Protestantism. I am a member of a Protestant chucrch, I take communion there but am not permitted to take communion in a Roman Catholic Mass, because I haven't been 'initiated' into the RC tradition. I am considered a Christian by the RC church, but not admitted to the full range of their ritual. This is really the point where banging on about the mechanics of FM really misses the point, and the reason that the 'Secrets' can't be articulated in an article.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 09:19, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::::::: I was trying to get the point accross that what you are describing is "Seperate but Equal" however it is not equal because I will never in the eyes of your lodge be considered equal. Even the article says it Women cannot be a part of regular Freemasonry. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::::::: And you are getting caught up in the mechanics. Merely 'sitting in lodge' does not make one a Freemason. The view of UGLE, as stated in the declaration, is 'equal but separate'.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 09:36, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::: How is it equal for me to not be allowed to join "regular" freemasonry. I don't see how treating women seperatly, and preventing us from joining "regular" lodges can be considered equal. In various article's i've read that this page uses as references, it says that part of being a freemason means that you can go to any other lodge and be included there as a fellow brother, that is not the case for women. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:42, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::The operative word there is "brother". & do '''not''' even '''imply''' that equality has ''anything'' to do with it. Go out & ask your local Lodge (&/or OES if you're in the USA) & ask them why women are not allowed. Do your homework, don't demand that we do it for you. & in doing your homework, if you get some "Oh, because they're a bunch of raciest woman-bashing bigots, then you get an F-...'' ''';~D''' '' [[User:Grye|Grye]] 01:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::: I never ever implied that I feel that the exclusion of women from the fraternity is a bad thing. That is what a fraternity is, I wouldn't expect sororities to admit guys either. I just don't like the fact that people keep insisting that women can become freemasons, and then in the next sentence they say we can't become "regular" freemasons. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:26, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::I agree, I think each gender needs it's own organizations. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 01:33, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::: I once met a married couple that had both been Grand Lodge Officers. They knew the same ritual, but did nonetheless sit in different Lodges. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, or that one gets a better Masonic experience. I think it's what you put into it and a Lodge that is active in ritual and the community is going to have the same experiences as another Lodge that does the same regardless of the membership details. There is nowhere in the world that I would be able to sit in a Lodge with a woman, maybe that will change someday, but the way things are now wouldn't, I hope, interfere with the ability of people in a co-Masonry Lodge to fully enjoy their Masonic experience. Just my two cents. --[[User:Cauil|Cauil]] 08:53, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::::: I know a number of people who are Co-Masons, or couples who are seperately members of Masuline and Feminine Lodges. Each has it's own attractions and features. It's a question of selecting what's appropriate to the individual and their relationship with their own Supreme Being and their fellow sentient beings. The initiatory experiences are different, but their value is comparable.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 09:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:In Colorado, USA, a Regular Freemason cannot sit in Lodge with an irregular Freemason, be it the Regular Lodge or the irregular; nor Discuss private Masonic information with same. To willingly do so would be to bring Masonic charges against oneself, & almost definite disassociation. Oh, & Disabled: ''"...free of a physical or mental impairment that would keep him from learning the principles of Masonry"'' is pretty close to CO USA's policy too. I think it says something more like ''"free of a physical or mental impairment that would keep him from '''Practicing''' the principles of Masonry"''. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 09:28, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:Suppose we better throw out the Pro Grand Master then :) http://www.canonbury.ac.uk/ [[User:ALR|ALR]] 09:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I wanna say that while I agree with what Cauil, ALR and Grye are saying here, I must throw in that "seperate but equal" is never truly equal. They use that argument to discriminate against gay people to deny them [[same-sex marriage|marriage]] rights. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 17:39, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:No, it has nothing to do with that. Nothing. Women are inherantly different from men, & I don't see where anyone but the critics here said ''anything'' at all about equality or inequality. ALR quoted UGLE, who said they ''are'' equal. I said it really isn't a matter of equality, at all. Women cannot be included in Regular Freemasonry. There is Freemasonry of one form or another out there for you. It isn't a bad thing, it's just the way it is. Cars have wheels, & those wheels are round; etc. 3/4 of this page's length has become about Seraphim's questioning Women in Regular Freemasonry. This issue is several centuries old. We cannot tell you anything better than someone more adept at answering your question. '''Especially''' when we are going to be quoted. Besides, no-one here speaks for all Freemasonry. Lovingly, I ask for this issue here to end here. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 01:38, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

:: As everyone keeps saying "Women cannot be included in Regular Freemasonry." that is my entire point. A seperate irregular version of Freemasonry is not "Freemasonry" it is a Masonic-like or Masonic-Inspired group. Saying that women can become freemasons is just incorrect. I like the version that is in the article. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 01:44, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

:::This article is about Freemasonry, which is Regular Freemasonry. Your point is valid, of course, but ''Regular Freemasonry is what it is.'' Period. You & I simply are not going to change it significantly. & remember, What is today called Regular Freemasonry ''is'' the original Freemasonry. There ''is'' an entire section, w/ a corresponding article, about Co-Freemasonry. By all of your arguements, That entire section should go away, with a simple link to Co-Freemasonry. This article is about regular Freemasonry, & that is about Co-. This article in & of itself '' '''is''' '' the history of Co-Freemasonry. So, the alternative is that pretty much the entire [[Freemasonry]] article should be replicated as the [[Co-Freemasonry#History]] section, & any statements made here about women in Freemasonry should be changed to reflect men in Freemasonry, & replicated there. So.... Are you game for all that work? [[User:Grye|Grye]] 01:59, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

:::I would like to respectfully interject something into the discussion of "regular vs. irregular". I am a Freemason within the jurisdiction of the Grand Lodge of Texas. While I certainly cannot begin to speak "for" Freemasonry (which, indeed, is outside of the ability of any one person or group), I can speak "about" Freemasonry. "Regular Freemasonry" is not an absolute. It is subjective and will depend on where one stands. When one speaks about a lodge or jurisdiction being "regular", one must also ask, "Regular according to whom?" For example, my jurisdiction would not call Co-Masonry "regular", but there are other jurisdictions in the world which might. Of course, those other jurisdictions which DO recognize Co-Masonry as "regular" also run the risk of being thought of as "irregular" by my jurisdiction. Another example is that of the three Grand jurisdictions which operate in France, only one of which is considered "regular" by many Grand Lodges in the United States. However, there may be plenty of other jurisdictions around the world which would consider one or both of those other two Grand jurisdictions to be perfectly "regular". It would be correct to say that women cannot become Masons in any lodge or jurisdiction which my own would consider "regular". It would be incorrect to say that women cannot become Freemasons at all. ~Ken Dickinson~ 22:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

::::That's probably the most useful contribution to the debate thus far, thankyou Bro Ken. [[User:ALR|ALR]] 22:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

::::: It is very useful, i'll support saying that women cannot become Masons in any lodge or jurisdiction that one would consider "regular". However listing off the ways that women can become Irregular Freemasons is outside the scope of this article in my opinion. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 23:55, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::: I agree. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 23:57, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::: Depends what one considers Freemasonry to actually be, for many it is more than the mere mechanics of organisation. the topic is Freemasonry which is a vehicle for developing ones' relationship with ones Supreme Being which leads to the mildly philosophical point about the nature of this article. Is it intended to talk about the mechanics and structure, or Freemasonry itself? In that sense there is probably an argument for a numnber of sub-articles rather than trying to blob up a complex subject in one. The point about regularity is a trivial little rabbit hole.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 08:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::: I do have a question for you. Since sharing the contents of the teachings with non-brothers is forbidden, how do these other "irregular" lodges claim to have the same teachings? Or are they claiming that they are based on the ideals of freemasonry... in which case what are those Ideals? On another note, obviously you cannot define Freemasonry as a vehicle for developing one's relationship with one's Supreme Being, because you could easially attribute that to any religion(which freemasonry is not). <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 08:35, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::: I've asked this question before, but to have a meaningful discussion then it's something that you need to think about. how familiar are you with the concepts underinning Initiatory traditions and the related experience. We need to understand what is meant by 'teachings' and 'secrets', compared with the experience undergone by the individual. Once we have that understanding then we can appreciate how that might translate. As to your latter point, Supreme Being is a generic term, FM works in parallel with ones religion/ faith/ belief system; complementary to it rather than replacing it. It does not carry its own religious teachings but uses those of the individuals nomination; Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, Muslim or whatever.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 10:11, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::Hello, Ken interjecting again here, now that I've gone ahead and registered myself. Seraphim, I think I understand where some of the confusion is coming in with regard to women becoming Masons in "regular" lodges. Many people outside of Masonry (and perhaps even quite a few inside it as well) have a difficult time with the concept that each Grand jurisdiction is completely and 100% autonomous. The Grand Master of Masons in Texas is answerable to no one above him in the organization, anywhere in the world. The same can be said of every Grand Master of Masons in every jurisdiction. It is hard for some people to conceive that within such a large, globe-spanning organization that there is not some form of centralized leadership guiding it, but the fact is that there is not. The question of "regularity" is left completely to the Grand jurisdiction in question. That is what I meant in my first post when I said that "regular Freemasonry" is not an absolute. Just because one jurisdiction labels one another as "irregular" does not mean that other jurisdictions are obliged to follow suit. A more meaningful term, perhaps, in regard to the question of the acceptance of female Masons, might be "mainstream Freemasonry". Most jurisdictions, I think, which would recognize female Masons as "regular" would readily admit that they are not "mainstream". To my knowledge, however, "mainstream" is not an official Masonic designation and there is no official criteria set by the jurisdictions to define it. "Mainstream Freemasonry", as I understand it, can be equated with could also be called "traditional Freemasonry."

:::::Additionally, the answer to the question of how an "irregular" lodge could come to have knowledge of the same teachings - and by that I assume you mean the secret, or esoteric portions of the work - as a "regular lodge is a simple one. Many lodges thought of as "irregular" did not start out that way. The Grand Orient of France is a perfect example of that. During the late 1800's it strayed far enough away from certain landmarks that most jurisdictions in the United States withdrew their recognition and deemed it "irregular". Another, older example is the conflict between the "Moderns" and the "Antients" in England during the 1700's. Neither group recognized the other as "regular", even though they stemmed from the same organization. [[User:W8EBJ|Ken]] 17:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

=== '''Status of Negroes in Freemasonry''' ===

This section is not accurate either. The Alternative Version is on the right track, however a comment added about recognition is not correct. In California, Masonic Code includes a section that maintains the Grand Lodge of California and the Prince Hall Grand Lodge of California have concurrent jurisdiction and recognize one another.

The title which includes the word "negro" may not be the best choice. It is often thought of with a negative association, even if that was not the intent of the original writers. I suggest "African-Americans". --[[User:Cauil|Cauil]] 08:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:No kidding it's not accurate :). None of the "Status Of" sections are correct, and most GLs in the US recognize PHGLs now, as does UGLE. I believe Paul Bessel has a page on this at [http://www.bessel.org his website].

:: I don't mean to suggest that this has to be done in WP, but the typical designation in academic circles is "black" when referring to a person of African origin. [[User:Freddie deBoer|Freddie deBoer]] 14:20, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

== '''Masonic Secrets''' ==

I would also like to address information contained within this section. There are really only three aspects that should be discussed here. First, is the secrecy of business transactions within a Lodge. That is to say, a Lodge, in many areas, is a legal entity, such as a corporation. Information that is voted upon by members is proprietary and no different from rules governing other businesses and corporations. Second are pieces of ritual. While all of this can be found if one spends enough time in a library or online, the value of the ritual is enhanced when the candidate is experiencing it for the first time, and is therefore kept secret. With this there is a tie in to the third issue, which pertains to modes of recognition. As part of the history of Masonry, they are ways to identify one’s self. These are introduced in ritual, and are kept secret. The final two, of course, differ little from the secrecy surrounding a college fraternity.

As an aside, I see no academic value to including details on oaths, signs or penalties. However, I doubt they will be removed so I would suggest, in the interest of accuracy, that these sort of things be put into context. For example, one might add that Freemasons are bound to obey the laws of their country and cannot inflict bodily harm to another. The only enforceable penalties Masonry has involve suspension or termination of membership in a Lodge.

Finally, secrecy as trying to keep non-masons from knowing about Masonic activity in their area is not correct. Some Lodges have signs at city limits indicating there is a Lodge in town, and most have clear signs on the outside of the building identifying a Lodge. In fact, if you want to know where a Lodge is near you, try the phone book. --[[User:Cauil|Cauil]] 09:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:'''Phonebook:''' Usually in the yellow pages, under ''"Fraternal Organizations"''...'' ''';~D''' '' [[User:Grye|Grye]] 09:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:The only thing that I want to be included in the article, is the mention of what the secrets are (not their contents). I want it to be adressed in it's own seperate section, that would have statements explaining how what is considered secret changes from lodge to lodge, that the contents of rituals are kept secret because masons feel if the contents of the rituals were public knowledge the experience would be lessened, and that masons swear secret oaths to eachother, and have secret ways of identifying themselves as masons to other masons. I can see no reason or way to include the inherently unverifiable content like "in the ritual for this intiation they say this word and stab themselves here", to me that is all both out of the scope of the article, and rubbish. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:37, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::The assertion that ''masons swear secret oaths to eachother'' is inherently non-verifiable anyway, since elements of ritual are secret. Those aspects which are publically available do not support the assertion. And I still don't see what is wrong with 'Elements of the ritual are considered secret' since that is all they are. ALR [[User:82.109.66.151|82.109.66.151]] 09:47, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::: That's not entirely correct ALR. Since I can use sources already used on this page to prove the existance of the oaths. I'd also like to point out, just because something is done during the rituals, doesn't make it fall under the umbrella term "ritual". When people think of "rituals" they think of ceremonies or scripted events, ways of identifying eachother and oaths do not fall under that umbrella term. Even though the oaths are only mentioned during rituals, and the secret identifiers are only used during rituals, that does not mean they are the same "rituals" that are kept secret so people don't have the experience lessened for them. They are part of those rituals i'm sure, but they are seperate things. The oath that doesn't allow Masons to discuss private Masonic information with non masons, obviously does not only apply in the "rituals". <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 09:57, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::: I'll try again, I'm having connection problems, hence the unsigned comment. The nature of an initiatory ritual is such that everything falls under the umberella term 'ritual', we've already tried to make clear to you that recognitions are part of the ritual and the obligations are part of the ritual as well. You need to understand where ritual starts and finishes, if indeed it ever does (cf the Zen meditative experience threading through our daily experience), to appreciate how the obligations and use of mvoement and physical symbology constitutes part of the ritual. With respect to the extracts used by Lightbringer on this page, you can't have it both ways. His/ her motivations have been made clear and you yourself have highlighted that in two discussion sections above. One might take the view that in discussing this then one can neither confirm nor deny the accuracy or otherwise of the assertions. I would re-iterate that the source cited applies to a limited geographic area and is 140+ years old, hardly a credible source. With regard to your last, an interesting dichotomy: how do you define Masonic information? Look at all the web sites, I have a number of links on my user page as well as the ones in the article. How do you reconcile the wide, and official, availability of non-ritual information with that assertion?[[User:ALR|ALR]] 10:13, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::I completly understand that you consider all of the secrets to fall under the umbrella heading "ritual". However I feel that since we are an encyclopedia, our audience is people coming here to be educated on the subject. I know when I first got here I didn't understand that you consider all of the secrets to be part of "ritual", and I doubt anyone else coming here with the intention of learning about Freemasonry would understand that either, when people see the words secret and ritual together they think of an event not a group of ideals. What they would understand is a section, explaining all of this, "masons consider all of the masonic secrets to be part of masonic ritual" or something like that. My main point is, people should get the information they need out of the article, not be learning things by talking to masons here on the talk page, currently that is not the case. Also i'd like to point out once again, I feel that none of the information that lightbringer has presented was valid. My only defence towards that information, was when people were wrongly arguing that it cannot be used in the article since it is still under copyright. My feeling is that if you are going to do something do it right, don't just take the easy way out, and saying "removed - copyright infringement" in that case was not the correct way to deal with the information. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 10:27, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::''The oath that doesn't allow Masons to discuss private Masonic information with non masons, obviously does not only apply in the "rituals"'' I'm not sure, but do you think that this is ''not'' a part of ritual? because it is. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 10:08, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::: I mean that the oaths you take, do not only apply when your in your lodge taking part in a ritual. It still applies to you, say when your editing this article. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 10:12, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::: Your point isn't clear to me either. Of course an obligation, taken in the name of ones' own Supreme Being, applies at all times.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 10:18, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I was digging around on the internet and found this page http://www.masonicinfo.com/secrets.htm obviously it is POV and in first person, but I really like how he words the part about the recognitions. This is a pretty good example of how I feel a masonic secrets section should look, if anyone was wondering. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 10:40, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::: Whilst I admire your persistence, the majority of that page talks about the outward form, which we've already demonstrated isn't secret (indeed I have a Masonic ring on my finger right now) and the latter part is about the outcome of an initiatory experience and hence not verifiable.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 10:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::: I realize alot of the page talks about the overtness of the masons, however I was referring to the middle paragraph "But there are some Masonic secrets, and they fall into two categories. The first are the ways in which a man can identify himself as a Mason--grips and passwords. We keep those private for obvious reasons. It is not at all unknown for unscrupulous people to try to pass themselves off as Masons in order to get assistance under false pretenses. " <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 16:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Not to mention that it will almost definitely be different in the next GL jurisdiction... [[User:Grye|Grye]] 10:49, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::: I'd argue that the outcome of an initiatory experience is different for every individual that goes through it, never mind jurisdictions. No ritual will eer be the same since the participants might change, my own ritual work evolves each time I deliver it so everyone I have taken through a ritual has had a different experience.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 10:55, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

There really needs to be a section on Masonic Secrets within the article. I understand Masons trying to protect their organisation, but I have yet to hear a compelling argument as to why there should not be a section on Masonic Secrets here. Nobody is asking for specific examples of what constitutes Masonic secrets as far as I can see. Just an admission within the article that there are secretive behaviours within the article would suffice for me.

This talk page appears {I stress APPEARS} that Masons have something to hide. I'm sure that is not the case, so why not allow Seraphim to draft a section on Masonic secrets? I'm confident that she will adhere entirely to the guidelines and POV policy here.

The obstinance on this issue - and the lack of reasons to omit aforememntioned section - is frustrating. Let's break this impasse soon - by allowing the section or putting forth a compelling argument on why it should not be there. [[User:Deucelow|Deucelow]] 15:24, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

: I'm going to write something up, i've been putting it off for a while while lightbringer was having his fun. I'm just trying to take some baby steps, make a few points, and explain to everyone where i'm going with it to prevent what I post immediatly getting flamed and shot down. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 16:30, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::Can we flame and shoot you down anyway... it's so much ''FUN''! (Seriously, I took a look at the site you mentioned above, and I would have no objections to something similar.) [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 16:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem with a section of this, so long as no actual secrets are revealed/spoilers. I'd hate to ruin the experience for anyone who is not a mason and reads the article, but is considerng it. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 17:41, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

: That's not acceptable. [[WP:NOT]] censored for the protection of prospective Freemasons. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] - [[User talk:Hipocrite|&laquo;<small>Talk</small>&raquo;]] 17:43, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::Then you have to [[WP:V|verify]] it. Which you cannot, and if you can, it's under copyright. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 17:55, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::: Copyright does not protect information from being revealed. [[User:Hipocrite|Hipocrite]] - [[User talk:Hipocrite|&laquo;<small>Talk</small>&raquo;]] 18:09, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::But it does prevent some of that information from being used on Wikipedia. Im not saying anything you may wish to use for this article falls under Copywrite, Only that it does restrict what can be used. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 18:47, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::: If you look in archive 13 under the copyrights section, I believe I showed pretty clearly, that as long as the article is properly cited and not plagarized, quotes from it can be used on wikipedia under fair-use criteria. From [[WP:FAIR]] "Brief, attributed quotations of copyrighted text used to illustrate a point, establish context, or attribute a point of view or idea may be used under fair use. Text must be used verbatim: any alterations must be clearly marked as an elipsis ([...]) or insertion ([added text]) or change of emphasis ([emphasis added]). All copyrighted text must be attributed." <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 22:13, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::: However the source also needs to be reputable and comprehensive to be of utility in an academic context, and the source used by Rathbone was neither current nor comprehensive.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 22:34, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::: Inorder to claim a resource is not current you need to beable to show a source that proves that the information in the other resource is infact out of date, as far as Duncan's goes the text of it was last updated in the late 1970's and no newer resource that shows that the information in Duncan's is out of date was presented, if the information he was trying to add was not outside the scope of the article it would meet all [[WP:V]] standards. I agree Basil's stuff was junk and doesn't belong in here, I just feel that all this debate should be had so everyone knows the issues before I post what I am working on. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 22:48, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::: Duncans was last published in the 70's, there is no indication if the content was updated. As MSJapan has mentioned a couple of times, it is an item of historical interest. It was one of the earliest attempts to promulgate a form of ritual in one Jurisdiction. Merely because it was published doesnt actually make it current, reliable, comprehensive etc. My own ritual book was last published in the early 2000s, my copy is from 1996 :) But it only applies in some English Lodges, hence thats not comprehensive either. The one thing that stymies any citation is the comprehensive issue. You're not going to find a single source which covers universal Freemasonry. Indeed, I belong to 4 Craft Lodges and each has a different ritual. And you've been 'working on something' for how long now?[[User:ALR|ALR]] 23:00, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::::::::: I understand completly that ritual and the secrets change from lodge to lodge, and that will be noted. However as I have pointed out since the information in Duncans is still undercopyright the fact that the content was updated is indisputable, since you cannot just extend a copyright on a written work as long as you want. If you want to prove Duncan's wrong and obsolete you are more then welcome to provide information from your own ritual book that does so and cite that. I am working on a section, I stopped working on it with the basil issue, and I really haven't touched it from a writing perspective in the last few days, as you can see by me posting that link last night, I am actively researching it. I'd rather read alot of material and then write the section instead of write the section and then try to find references. I actually do need help on one thing. Can you find me a resource that I can use for the line about how what is considered secret changes from lodge to lodge. Since that line is going to be rather touchy i'd like to have a really good approved resource for it, and sadly the only library I have access to only had one book on freemasonry and it's pretty much rubbish. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 23:23, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::::You could ask Quator Coronati Correspondence Circle, an organisaiton of which both MSJ and I are members. QC is the premier Lodge of Masonic Research. There's a link on the HFAF and UGLE websites. You could also ask UGLE for a formal comment on the number of rituals in use in the lodges under their direction. I can think of at least four but there are more. There may not be a single source, but you'd need to do some original research, query a range of GLs and compare and contrast the responses. Some of it is on the web, I think GL of Texas is one of the ones where the entire ritual is secret, since there is no one voice for FM then you'll be stretched to find something which applies globally. As far as Duncans is concerned. The ritual need not have been updated, but the contents of the colume may have been, something as simple as changes to the introduction allow that which leaves the main content unchanged, you need to be able to establish that before you can cite it as a valid source, and it still falls at the 'comprehensive' hurdle. If you look through the archive pages you'll find an ISBN for my own ritual book, you're free to compare that with Duncans and identify where there are differences, your library can order on the basis of the ISBN. I get the impression that one of the points you're not taking in is that whilst Freemasonry is Universal, there is no universal authority for Freemasonry, notwithstanding the Supreme Being to which we all aspire.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 23:35, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::::: Wikipedia doesn't allow editors to include results of original research. Obviously if that line isn't included people will object to the section, however I can't find a resource for it so I can't add it and was hoping you could find one for me. Otherwise there will always be a dagger hanging over the section once it is added. The duncan's issue is moot since I dont' plan on using it anyway so i'll just stop the duncans discussion before we end up repeating a discussion that already took place. The ritual book you use is available for non masonic reading? Can you tell me the ISBN on my talk page (the talk pages for this article make finding anything almost impossible) i'd be very interested in reading that. I can find the resource about Freemasonry not having a universal authority easially in the references for this page. The thing that I can't find is a resource to back up the claim that "what is considered secret varies from lodge to lodge, and in some instances the contents of the secrets themselves also differ" which has been pointed out to me over and over on this talk page. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 23:46, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

::Makes your motivations reasonably clear. However I would tend to agree, if the material is verifiable from a comprehensive, reliable and respected source then there is a level of legitimacy in its inclusion should that inclusion actually be useful in terms of the article. However finding a comprehensive, reliable and respected source will prove to be tricky and I'm not convinced of the value of the inclusion of the secrets in the article, for the reasons I gave above. The secrets are so personal to the individual following the initiatory experience, their import cannot be described in an article.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 21:44, 13 February 2006 (UTC)

:::Hodapp's ''Freemasonry for Dummies'' has a story in it that validates variance in secrets. I haven't got it in front of me, but I'll get the page when I do. Also, ritual books are sometimes freely available, but whether you can read them without knowing the content already is debatable. Ritual books also do not have ISBNs, because they are privately printed by the various Grand Lodges. [[User:MSJapan|MSJapan]] 04:12, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

::::I have no way of getting my hands on the book, so just put up here the respective quote and the correct cite for it if you can thanks :p <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 04:16, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

"Freemasons who go traveling may visit Masonic lodges all over the world, but not every lodge uses the same methods of recognition." (Hodapp 18) "Making matters even more confusing is the fact that one jurisdiction may use different ritual ceremonies, different passwords, and different grips than another." (Hodapp 18) Freemasons for Dummies, Christopher Hodapp, Wiley Publishing, Indianapolis, Indiana, 2005 (ISBN 0-7645-9796-5) [[User:Chtirrell|Chtirrell]] 04:24, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

: Works for me :p Will problary post this on... wednesdayish. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 04:39, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

:: Expect tomorrow night, got sidetracked with Grye trying to delete the Jahbulon article. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 00:02, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

==Latest Lightbringer sockpuppet==

{{user|Humanun Genus}} had the same edit pattern as Lightbringer and - woohoo! - edited ''only'' using open proxies. Blocked. Please keep me up to date on my talk page, he's making a very useful open proxy canary ;-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 14:53, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

:Hey, DG (or anyone) isn't there something about removing banned Users/Sockpuppet's edits & statements, even something about ripping them out of page historys? Somewhere? [[User:Grye|Grye]] 06:58, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

::No that would destroy the page. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 07:04, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:::No, there '''is''' something about it somewhere. I don't see how it would actually destroy the page anyway... [[User:Grye|Grye]] 07:22, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

::::They can make it so flood vandalism is removed and doesn't show up in the page history. If they were to remove all of his edits, you would still see all of our edits that were responses to him. It would not look pretty. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 11:33, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah. I wouldn't remove the edits from the history - that isn't generally done except with grievous libel or personal information that may put someone in danger (phone numbers of editors, etc) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 12:24, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:OK yeah that answers my question, ''that's'' where I saw it refered to. Thanks. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 12:29, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== ANTIENT CHARGES OF A ''UGLE'' FREE-MASON==

[[Image: Political_enemies_repeaters.svg|thumb|right|120px|'''[[Nazi concentration camp badges|Brethrens’ Red Delta]]''']]

Back, after the latest blocking…

(Concerning Wiki Users in general)

VI.4. BEHAVIOUR IN PRESENCE OF STRANGERS, NOT MASONS

You shall be cautious in your words and carriage, that the most penetrating stranger shall not he able to discover or find out what is not proper to be intimated; and sometimes you shall divert a discourse, and manage it prudently for the honour of the worshipful fraternity.

(Concerning Wiki Users who say they are Freemasons)

VI.6. BEHAVIOUR TOWARDS A STRANGE BROTHER

You are cautiously to examine him in such a method as prudence shall direct you, that you may not be imposed upon by an ignorant, false pretender, whom you are to reject with contempt and derision, and beware are of giving him any hints of knowledge.

*Ref: BOOK OF CONSTITUTIONS UGLE, 2005 [http://www.grandlodge-england.org/pdf/index.htm] in the public ___domain.

My actions have been quite consistent in upholding the “ Antient Charges”. I am not a “sock”. Several Mason users have been blocked, on the same IP address, and have been called “socks”. This is a lie – as they are different people.

Doh! “S&F” is short for “Sincerely and Fraternally”, not Skull ‘n’ Femurs, at the end of a message. Any true Mason (or “knowledgeable” nosey ant-Mason) knows this. [[User:Skull 'n' Femurs|Skull &#39;n&#39; Femurs]] 09:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

: Might I also refer you to page 158 of the Craft rules at the reference, namely 'And sometimes you shall divert a discourse, and manage it prudently for the honour of the worshipful fraternity', which would suggest that attempts to derail civilised discussion may not be in the best interests of the fraternity. Notwithstanding that the latter pages of the Craft Rules at the reference make interesting reading with respect to the rest of the discussion here and undermine a number of the assertions made by Lightbringer and his assorted socks and camp followers. Page 150 onwards, page 153 specifically addressing the nature of who might be made a mason.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 10:42, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

==Skull 'n' Femurs' rant==

I've restored it as it demonstrates his bad faith toward Wikipedia. I'll be blocking him and putting a notice on [[WP:ANI]] about his stated intent (and actions) to systematically remove referenced information - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 12:24, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

:Notice on [[WP:ANI]] and on [[User talk:Skull 'n' Femurs]] - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 12:41, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

== [[User:SeraphimXI]] is (not) [[User:Mahabone]] ==

Funny thing is, it's also a sockpuppet of ''another'' user, I just haven't recognized & documented which. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=SeraphimXI&offset=20060106065800&limit=50 Look] & [[Special:Contributions/Mahabone|yee shall see.]] [[User:Grye|Grye]] 10:11, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:I'm looking, but I don't know what I'm looking for... since accusing people of sockpuppetry is a rather serious thing, might you be more spesific? I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just afraid we're starting to see socks where there are none. [[User:WegianWarrior|WegianWarrior]] 11:18, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:And? So what? Whilst the style and empty 'I'm working on something' is frustrating, some of the resulting dialogue has been useful. And as with WW, I don't see what your getting at with those links.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 11:43, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:I did the checkuser to calm people's minds. They're not related in the slightest :-) Please try not to get too jumpy! I know how it can get after a long and horrible floating-flamewar type article with a sockpuppet or two involved, you do start seeing socks under the beds ...

:I think I'll be asking other admins for help on this one - I only have close knowledge of Lightbringer, and seem to find myself cleaning up a mess I don't quite know the Wikipedia history of well enough ... - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 11:52, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

:: LOL this is great. For the record, I have a static IP on a campus network that's specifically for me. Another user on this IP is physically impossible. It's also impossible for another person to use this network that i'm on without being a resident here. Thanks for accusing me I guess, now that that's cleared up we can move on. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 16:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

::: I'd like to thank WegianWarrior for actually posting this to get a checkuser result. Grye decided to post these accusations on my user-page this page and talk:Jahbulon and then dissapear, without posting a checkuser request. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 16:47, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I'd also like to point out that one of Mahabone's first edits was requesting that his old userpage as an anon user be deleted. That IP tracert's back to a Greek ISP, accusing me of being a sockpuppet of him was simply rediculious. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 00:04, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

:Whatever, kitten. I'm sorry, for only & of all, that I had to pass out tired get some sleep before a checkuser was already performed like 6 hours later. but hey, you're cool with like 6-12 hour timespans, right? I mean, you learned all there is to learn about Freemasonry in less time than that... & go ahead, keep talking like I didn't clarify that it was a circumstantial mistake that I tagged you a sockpuppet. you know otherwise, based on your diatribe here, so keep talkin. Meanwhile, I'm out. Have fun with your little world here you've created for yourself, & all of us. [[User:Grye|Grye]]

== Comment ==

This is to all the editors on the page, since this line has been tossed around at me many times now. Yes my first edit to this page I commented that I came to this page without knowing anything about freemasonry. Yes 12 hours later I added a POV warning tag to the article. If you read the section I added to the talk page, none of the points I made required any knowledge about freemasonry. The fact that I tagged the article when 12 hrs before I didn't know anything about the subject in no way is "suspicious" or proof that I have an anti-freemasonic agenda. It is very easy to detect bias in writing, and in this case the puffery line in the first paragraph and the edit history defending that line was enough to justify adding my tag. Now that I know more there are even more reasons I can list off(which are being dealt with), however at the time I posted it my reasons required no knowledge of the material. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 00:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, you're right. Your edits, all, of them, with video game consoles, proves you capable & right. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 09:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

::P.S. you know nothing about Freemasonry. You're looking through a grimy window into a world you don't understand. & to boot, the room you see, which you think is the Lodge Room, is actually beyond the outer door. That's in no way an insult, <U>please</U> understand that, it's just a pretty acurate description...'' ''';~D''' '' [[User:Grye|Grye]] 01:12, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

:::From [[WP:NPA]] "Using someone's affiliations as a means of dismissing or discrediting their views - regardless of whether said affiliations are mainstream or extreme." and "Negative personal comments and "I'm better than you" attacks, such as "You have no life."". Just because i'm not a Freemason doesn't mean I don't have the right to edit this article. Infact if your suggesting that I know nothing about freemasonry, I guess this article is a stub or should be deleted, since apparently it contains no information. Please stop with the passive agressive stuff, just because you sign something with a ;-D doesn't make it any less of an insult. I've already asked you to stop it a few times, it's starting to get rediculious. Also so what that I edit video game articles mainly??? How does that effect this page at all. It doesn't. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 07:29, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

It seems that there is a whole lot going on here other than writing an article on Freemasonry. Talking about various topics is fun, but I don't see much progress being made. What are typically the issues that hold things up? Do they all stem from genuine disagreements or what?

As a side note, I see several users have a Square and Compass icon on their user page. I assume this is just something people decide to put up on their own. Is this assumption correct?

Thanks, --[[User:Cauil|Cauil]] 10:37, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

:Actually, good point, I made more obscurely elsewhere: write the friggin article. stop with this. Yes, that's been bad here before, & recently with other related articles, but so be it. At this point, the edits '''are going to be made'''. fine. edit them then. Methinks that's how all this will play out: the article will basically be destroyed, & reincarnate. The light will shine again. later. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 10:53, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

== Regularity, Masculine, Feminine and Androgynous Masonry ==

Reading through this article, and recently the Co-Masonry article, and given the difficulty in communicating the relationships between Masculine, Feminine and Androgynous Masonry I think we need to have a critical look at how the issues are reflected in the article. As an example in the Organisational structure section it is very unclear to the unfamiliar reader that GOdF is 'irregular' as far as UGLE, and lodges in amity with UGLE, is concerned yet on the other hand the issue of regularity as regards Feminine and Androgynous Masonry is concerned is given much more prominence. I'd also suggest that it's worth breaking 'Origin Theories' out from 'Foundation to 1717', there is clear documentary evidence for some form of existence, predominantly Operative, prior to 1717, but some of the Origin theories are nothing short of fanciful cf Knight & Lomas for example. To that end I'll add a section on Regularity, and a section on Origin Theories.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 19:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

:Those details about that particular Lodge would go on that Lodge's article page. If there isn't one, create it. If it isn't worth an entire article, leave it out: It's not worth a sentence here. It ''is'' covered when speaking about C0-Masonry & atheists. If we detail their standing, we'd have to detail hundreds of others. [[User:Grye|Grye]] 21:54, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

::It's reasonaable to talk about general cases, and there is a precedent in that GOdF is articulated as being '''Freemasonry''' when it's clearly '''irregular''' by virtue of its' atheism. There are very few things which really define regularity anyway; masculinity/ femininity, atheism, political involvement.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 22:00, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

:::Actually GOdF has pretty much ''defined'' irregularity in Freemasonry, & with that, I might -''might, we'll see-'' have to agree that they may be a good citation & mention in an article like this. But it's ''gotta'' be done well. If you can do that, good luck & go to it. But please, don't do it poorly or half-asked [sic]...'' ''';~D''' ''

::::I can give it a go, but I'm not a Completer-Finisher, there are detail freaks around to do that :) I'm also dyslexic which doesn't help.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 22:31, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

==Merge==

Do we merge Freemasonry and Anti-Masonry? [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 07:07, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''Disagree''' I say it stays as-is. [[User talk:Ardenn|Ardenn]] 07:07, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''Agree''' the current "Criticism, persecution, and prosecution " section should be replaced with the contents of the Anti-Masonry page which has had extencive work done on it. Also the information added to "History of Freemasonry" from the Anti-Masonry page should be represented in the "History of Freemasonry" section. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 07:18, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''Disagree''' the Anti-Masonry article has turned from a difficult to read conglomeration into a parent article with '''four''' appendant articles on various aspecs of Anti-Masonic thought. Despite that the summary on the Anti_masonry page is still too big to meaningfully integrate into this page without dominating the discussion. Freemasonry is too big a subject to be covered usefully in one article, it needs to be a collection of related articles for the lay reader to be able to get a grasp on it without being intimidated by verbage. A lot of credit to JAS for applying the editorial discipline and turning one article into five. Agree that the current summary needs to be slimmed down.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 08:32, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

* ‘’’Agree’’’ With reservations. I have a different proposal, see comment below. [[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] 12:57, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

::I'm more generally content with this proposal, as articulated below.[[User:ALR|ALR]] 13:44, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''Disagree'''. It is far too large a topic, and merging it (and thereby shrinking it)is not going to improve the quality in the least. [[User:MSJapan|MSJapan]] 14:12, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''Disagree''' too big an article, as well, was a seperate political movement in the US, notable in its own right.--[[User:Vidkun|Vidkun]] 14:34, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

*'''Stong Disagree'''. Far to complex a topic for merging. Deserves its own article. That article is much better than it was, but it still needs work. See comments below. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 14:47, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

==Merge Discussion==

Before voting please go view the newest version of the Anti-Masonry page don't assume you know what it looks like it has been changed drastically. It is a far more concise version of the Criticism section, with better references and written in summary style to keep the page size down. It is actually smaller in size also then the section in the article now, so length is not an issue. It is no longer the POV mess that caused it to be tossed out of this article, and infact a few editors of the page have commented that it was alot easier to keep track of the page while it was part of this article. <font color="FF3399">[[User:SeraphimXI|Seraphim]]</font> 07:18, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

:[[Anti-Masonry]] as it is currently constructed is in reality a “criticisms of Freemasonry” article and is better suited here. It does not cover a homogenous or meaningful movement with common themes (as [[Anti-Semitism]] does).

:‘’However’’, the “Political Anti-Masonry” area is a subject that deserves an article in it’s own right. There is a common thread of allegation towards Freemasonry that it’s secretive oath-bound nature and obligation to help fellow Masons, it leads to a corruption of civic society and distracts from patriotism. This motivated the first bans (in Protestant countries such as Holland, Geneva, etc), it was a strong factor in the ‘’’initial’’’ Papal bans, it motivated a whole party in the United States in the nineteenth century, it influenced Volkisch thought in the Twentieth and even today it can be seen in some actions of New Labour in the UK. That should be the basis of the article. I would not then wish to merge that article.

:The Social Anti-Masonry section should be merged into the Criticisms of Freemasonry section.

:The Religious Anti-Masonry section should be removed from the Anti-Masonry article. The ’’relationship’’ of Freemasonry with Christianity and Catholicism (and probably Islam as well) are articles in their own right. However they are not always a relationship of outright hostility, but is more subtle than that. Putting Religious Anti-Masonry in it’s own section gives an erroneous impression of hostility. The general religious criticisms of Freemasonry, religious Indifferentism being the main one, could be covered in this article, with the relationship between Freemasonry and a specific religion covered in their separate articles. (See [[Christianity and Freemasonry]] or [[Catholicism and Freemasonry]]).

:[[User:JASpencer|JASpencer]] 12:57, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

::I would disagree with the statement that [[Anti-Masonry]] is really just a "criticisms of Freemasonry" article. Perhaps you have been editing it with that goal in mind, but if so you did not succeed. Your good work has cleaned up a very bad article, one that was indeed a POV fork, and given it a structure on which to build a comprehensive article on a unique phenominon. Now we can add back some of the material that you removed (in a proper NPOV way of course) and make it a very good article. I do not mind the idea of creating various sub-articles for the political and social forms of Anti-Masonry (as has been done with the various religious objections). But they should have the main Anti-Masonry article as their parent. The idea is to summarize the topic in the main article and then point to the sub-article for further information.

::On related note... you and Seraphim have suggested several merges recently. You need concensus for a merge to happen. I do not think you will get that concensus. These articles are going to stay seperate. Given that, if the reason behind your merge proposals is that you feel the criticism section of this article is flawed some how, you should work with us to improve that section... and not waste your time and efforts on trying to force an unwanted merger. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] 15:01, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

== 'Master Mason' a page of it's own ==

A "Master mason" page should be separate from that of freemasonry because it is not just a designation given out by the freemasons. It is a designation of it's own.

For this reason I would like to open up discussion and to get everyone’s opinions.

If it is found to be important enough to make it a page of it's own, then it should be "master mason" and not "master masonS"

Thank you

This posted following my request on the authors talk page. See contribution at [[master masons]].[[User:ALR|ALR]] 15:32, 22 February 2006 (UTC)