Talk:Chelsea Manning
(Redirected from Talk:Chelsea Manning gender identity media coverage)
Latest comment: 5 months ago by Talib1101 in topic Typos in Quote
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Q1: Why is this article titled Chelsea Manning?
A majority of sources now use the name "Chelsea" when referring to Manning which would make it the common name. There has been consensus among editors since October 2013 that this name should be used.
Q2: Why does the article refer to Manning as she?
MOS:IDENTITY says: "Any person whose gender might be questioned should be referred to by the pronouns, possessive adjectives, and gendered nouns (for example 'man/woman', 'waiter/waitress', 'chairman/chairwoman') that reflect that person's latest expressed gender self-identification. This applies in references to any phase of that person's life, unless the subject has indicated a preference otherwise. [...] Direct quotations may need to be handled as exceptions (in some cases adjusting the portion used may reduce apparent contradictions, and ' [sic]' may be used where necessary)." Q3: Why is Manning in transgender categories?
The fact that Manning is transgender, and was a transgender inmate, a transgender soldier, etc, is notable and defining and has been discussed in multiple reliable sources (which are cited in the article). See Wikipedia:FAQ/Categorization for more information. Q4: I feel that Wikipedia is being biased against (or towards) my beliefs here, what should I do?
Wikipedia policy mandates that articles reflect the content of reliable sources and be written from a neutral point of view, avoiding advocating for any particular perspective. Minority ideas and opinions must not be given undue weight or promotion in Wikipedia articles. It is impossible for coverage of real-world controversies to leave everyone happy – ideas change and adapt over time, and partisan viewpoints are typically entrenched and unable to self-assess bias – but seeking and maintaining neutrality is an ongoing process. Concerns over bias can be addressed with bold editing following the WP:BRD cycle or by starting a civil and constructive discussion at this talk page to suggest article improvements. Q5: Why does Wikipedia include Chelsea Manning's deadname?
Wikipedia's guidelines say that we should include the birth name for a living transgender person in the lead sentence only if the person was notable under that name. This is the case for Chelsea Manning. By doing this, we ensure people who have only heard of Manning as her deadname can still find and recognize the article. |
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 | The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article relates to gender-related disputes or controversies or people associated with them, a contentious topic. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. |
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Who is Casey Manning?
editWho is Casey Manning?
There are two mentions of this individual but no links or explanation about who this person is or how he/she/it are related to Chelsea/Bradley Manning.
The main article only says: "Manning has an older sister". So I assume Casey is Chelsea's older sister, but this should be stated explicitly, otherwise further refernces to this appelation has no grounding in fact.
Vonuan (talk) 14:45, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Fixed. I added the name to the statement she has an older sister.However, we may need to address how she is refered to later in the text, as at least one source gives her name as Casey Manning Majors, in which case she should be refered to once by that name and later by Majors during the testimony portion. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 14:51, 18 February 2024 (UTC)
- Thank you for the reply and the edit.
- As to the naming, I am of the opinion that one should use the name of a person AT THE TIME of the event being discussed.
- IF the event is at birth, then the birth name should be used.
- In the case of the trial of "Bradley Manning" and prior events, it is wrong to distort history by speaking of "Chelsea Manning". If this becomes a requirement of "political correctness" then we are on a very slippery slope. Vonuan (talk) 11:50, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
- This was already a requirement; see MOS:DEADNAME and supplementary essay Wikipedia:Gender identity § Retroactivity. It is not common in written English to treat the names of people, places, or things as temporally fixed in the way you suggest (in fact it would be extremely confusing). Correctly naming living biography subjects is an act of basic decency and respect.
- If you have further comments or concerns on how Wikipedia writes about transgender people, please take them to a more general forum. Such a change would affect many more pages than this (and has been discussed to death hundreds of times and is never going to happen). –RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 14:53, 9 April 2024 (UTC)
why is her deadname literally in the first sentence
editdo better Beep320 (talk) 18:56, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- According to the policy, since she was also notable under her previous name, it goes in the lead section (See MOS:DEADNAME. In fact, her situation is even used as an example).--MattMauler (talk) 19:00, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- cringe and transphobic Beep320 (talk) 19:01, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
- @Beep320 How is it transphobic? It is a legit guideline, did you not even bother to read MOS:DEADNAME before you baselessly called someone cringe and transphobic? Titan(moon)003 (talk) 02:55, 9 November 2024 (UTC)
- cringe and transphobic Beep320 (talk) 19:01, 2 August 2024 (UTC)
My removals
editI made quite a few removals so I'm opening a discussion. My concern is that the military service section was wandering way off topic. A lot of the content there should be in a different section. Jozsefs (talk) 10:37, 7 December 2024 (UTC)
Selecting pronouns in direct quotation
editDue to the contentious topic, I am posting here before making any changes. In the section on military service, we write the following: She was allegedly being bullied, and according to another soldier, was having a breakdown. The soldier told The Guardian: "The kid was barely five foot ... [She] was a runt, so pick on [her]. [She's] crazy, pick on [her]. [She's] a faggot, pick on [her]. The [girl] took it from every side. [She] couldn't please anyone."
I think this is an excessive number of bracketed changes that hurts readability. I also think it compromises the original quote. One option would be to paraphrase, but the structure conveys meaning that would be difficult to capture. Another option would be to remove it entirely. A third option would be to use the original pronouns. I suggest the third, which is employed for a quote from Manning's father in the Background section. Any thoughts? cityuser (talk) 10:22, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
- MOS:GENDERID gives the advice to prefer paraphrasing over excessive bracketed replacements. Excessive bracketed replacements are still preferable to misgendering. If we can't find a way to make the line flow better, I would omit it. –RoxySaunders 🏳️⚧️ (talk • stalk) 16:55, 27 February 2025 (UTC)
Typos in Quote
edit| | This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
- What I think should be changed (format using {{textdiff}}):
In the first paragraph of the section "2019 jailing for contempt":
| − | + | "We've seen this power abused countless times to target political speech. I have nothing to contribute to this case and I resent being forced to endanger myself by participating in this predatory practice" |
I.e. capitalization and removing the digit 0.
- Why it should be changed:
This seems to be a typo, the source after that quote has the quote without those errors.
- References supporting the possible change (format using the "cite" button): [1]
OmegaOrderable (talk) 09:59, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
Done (but I also moved the period inside the quotation because it was part of the original quotation). 1101 (talk) 11:06, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
References
- ^ Axelrod, Tal. "Chelsea Manning subpoenaed for testimony in Julian Assange probe: reports". The Hill. Retrieved 18 March 2025.