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Talk:Ranjit Singh

Latest comment: 18 days ago by Wikiravidas in topic Caste background of Ranjit Singh, Jat or Sansi?
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Resolve conflict please

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Need your involvement Admin Sahib Ranjit Singh article

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Ranjit Singh

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Reason: small level of vandalism.

  • RegentsPark, Ranjit singh Article has been conflicted by editor see user:Hind ji,he always edit jat caste related articles or I think he belongs to jat caste please see the log of user:Hind ji[[1]]So your involvement requested to resolve the conflict ,there are variety of resources available on the internet but recently University had his researched on criminal tribes shows Ranjit Singh belongs to sansi caste :Hind ji try to declared Ranjit Singh as jat ,I have added that link as reliable source or as reference but one of user:Hind ji has reverted my edit without informing me .I may also have been wrong ,kindly resolve our issues.hope for early reply Thank you.

https://www.tribuneindia.com/news/archive/features/research-on-tribes-dubbed-criminal-by-british-397524 He trying to create influence of jat caste .

Semi-protected edit request on 10 March 2024

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Latest comment: 1 year ago2 comments2 people in discussion
Emailtolucky10 (talk) 14:12, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

HISTORY THE CASTE OF MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH WAS SAID TO BE OF A SANSI SIKH AS PER THE OLD RECORDS FOUND IN LAHORE PAKISTAN WHICH NEEDS TO BE CHECKED AS THE AMRITSAR AIRPORT WAS NAMED AFTER HIM AS RAJASANSI AIRPORT HOWEVER HE IS ALLEGEDLY OF THE JAT SIKH FAMILY MAY PLEASE BE CHECKED WITH THE RECORDS FOUND IN THE LAHORE FORT PAKISTAN

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Jamedeus (talk) 16:17, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Reg info in issue section

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Latest comment: 11 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

Maharaja Kharak singh was born on 24th Feb, 1800 (Samvat 1857). Ref. Umdat-ut-twarikh Kanwar Rattan Singh was born on 1802. So request you to kindly edit the info section by adding kanwar Rattan singh followed by the rest as he was the second son.

I also appreciate your protection mode in this matter as few were inclined to deteriorate the family history.

Appreciate your kind understanding.

Thanks & Regards Kanwar Sandeep Singh Sukherchakia (Adv) Kanwar sandeep (talk) 17:24, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

In section Early years

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Latest comment: 11 months ago6 comments3 people in discussion

Maharaja Ranjit singh was a Suryavanshi Rajpootra of Kashyap Gotra. The symbol of Surya can be seen in his dome.

Secondly in the section Early years it reads "Sandhawalia Jat" which is wrong because how can Maha Singh form a Sukherchakia Misl if he was a Sandhawalia Jat? The information conflicts here and also on village sukherchak which is 8 miles from the fort city Amritsar which was the jaddi pind settled by Budda Singh (Desi) where as the Sandhawalia pend is Raja Sansi where you will find the samadhas of Sandhawalia's ancestors only and not a single one from our family.

Dear Editor, I want to make many changes in this topic because this history is misleading as it's devoid of certain facts. Maharaja Ranjit Singh born on 13th Nov, 1780 in Badrukha and not in Gujranwala, because when Maha Singh received the news of his birth he was at a Muhim and Gujranwala was always vulnerable.

Appreciate your understanding!

You can contact me, so that i can provide you all the necessary information which requires a serious edit.

Thanks & Regards Kanwar Sandeep Singh Sukherchakia (Adv. SC) Kanwar sandeep (talk) 17:55, 2 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

I feel you disagreement is nothing but just am speculation to mislead the article transparency the source inclining he was undisputedly have connection with samdhawalia background but if you still have any misconceptions regarding his ancestry He was indeed a Jat which can be determined if you check his maternal ancestral household almost all of them were affiliated with Jat background, please seek some consolation from your near by doctor {{duck}} भारतसरकार-विभाग (talk) 15:32, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
I am Kunwar Sandeep Singh Sukherchakia, 8th generation direct descendent of Maharaja Ranjit Singh as per my kursi Nama of 1851-52 and 1891-92 which can be verified with the revenue department Amritsar and Lahore Durbar book Royal Establishments. Marrying a girl of JAT family does not make him JAT or a MUSLIM as he had 4 Muslim wives also so your vices shall never be correct, secondly I know more than anybody else about my family like you do for your family. Furthermore, the symbol of SUN inside the ceiling of his DOME cannot be let redundant against your reply. SUN means that he was a SURYAVANSHI and KASHYAP GOTRA. For your reference after finding more about my family from SALVAHAN with the reference from Matsya Poorana it was established that Salvahana is from the SATAVAHANA DYNASTY which was founded by the son of Manu SUDUMYA at present day PAITHAN in Maharastra then known as Pratisthanpura. The archeological survey of India recently has excavated the site and found the ancient city and since you are in BHARTA SARKAR you can get an access before you can defend any of your historical knowledge acquired by the false history. I want to stop this by putting the correct history up in this platform for the future readers. Ref: Giani Gyan Singh Gyan, Matsya Poorana. Kanwar sandeep (talk) 11:29, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
Also would like to bring into your kind attention that being an practicing advocate in Supreme Court of India and my interest in my family history has led me to the research on my family and bring into the public about its correct facts. The admin should allow me to make important changes to the page in MAHARAJA RANJIT SINGH. Thanks & Regards Kanwar sandeep (talk) 11:35, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
@Kanwar sandeep
Ok lets just we believe your assumption is hypothetically true however it still not make any different because you trying to achieve Suketchakia and Sandhawalia were quite equivalent as family as hole while sukeechakia is a broader twrm consolidate for misl on the other hand sandhawalia is correlated a nuclear family but still id doesn’t pose any effect on Ranjit singh Background for sure thanks alot 61.0.61.83 (talk) 15:41, 3 September 2024 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for the reply. Further to your questions I would like to clear that SANDHAWALIA are a different community who are BHATTI JAT from Village Raja Sansi in Amritsar later migrated to the frontier area where they established a village called SANDHA hence were called as SANDHAWALIA.
Now, my family elder Budda Singh (Desi) settled a village SUKHERCHAK which is 8 miles from the walled city of Amritsar and later Chadak Singh Shifted from Sukherchak to Frontier area "GUJRANWALA, now in Pakistan. SO these are two different families Sandhawalia who are Bhatti Jat and where as ourselves are SURYAVANSHI RAJPOOTRAS, KASHYAP GOTRA which is an ancient family related to olden times SATAVAHANA Dynasty founded King SUDUMNYU the son of MANU who migrated from Sindh and settled in PAITHAN or PRATISTHANPURA which is in MAHARASTRA India. (Ref. Matsya Poorana). The DOME of Maharaja Ranjit Singh in LAHORE has a symbol of SURYA (SUN) atop the dome from inside.
So this is the difference which matters as one family "THE SANDHAWALIA" who are Jat have R1a1 DNA which is found in Central Asia and our family is coming from a different part and have no match of DNA with the SANDHAWALIAS.
Ref: Gyan Singh Gyan a renowned historian has written on the origin of our family from king Salvahana who ruled from the banks of Lower Narmada towards down south from its banks and later defeated Emperor Vikramaditya and captured the Upper parts of Narmada and established his capital at SIALKOT (Now in Pakistan).
Thanks & Regards
With respect to wikipedia information of Maharaja Ranjit Singh my great grand father Kanwar sandeep (talk) 11:12, 4 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Semi-protected edit request on 17 September 2024

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Latest comment: 11 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion
2405:201:5027:800:B117:9FA7:E195:91EC (talk) 11:08, 17 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Death of maharaja ranjit singh due to paralysis

  Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NotAGenious (talk) 17:14, 18 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Death

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Latest comment: 11 months ago1 comment1 person in discussion

death of maharaja ranjit singh due to paralysis 2405:201:5027:800:B117:9FA7:E195:91EC (talk) 11:10, 17 September 2024 (UTC)Reply

Review request

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Latest comment: 10 months ago3 comments2 people in discussion
  Moved from User talk:The joy of all things

The following has just appeared on my talk page:

== Need quick assessment *Ranjit Singh (friendly intervention) ==

@The joy of all things Straightforwardly, Hey may LubanaPB02 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) have been recently involved in the manipulation and extreme case of vandalism in a well planned organised manner can you please try to revert his latest edit specifically on Ranjit Singh thanks in advance if your received my message!! Bold 14.192.211.11 (talk) 21:07, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

:Hey man you need to look after this toxic case sorry for my unwanted turbulence but this guy removed the family background at Ranjit Singh please try to revert it However I don't able to this at this movement of time @The joy of all things :Thanks and regards 14.192.211.11 (talk) 21:14, 2 October 2024 (UTC)

As I have no expertise in this area, and I don't know what has been going on, perhaps someone else can shed light on this? I don't think I've even edited this article. Thanks. The joy of all things (talk) 21:27, 2 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yeah actually, this user i reported to your talk discussions bar he actually changing the early life from Samdhawalia Jats( with actually attributed at reference ) to any unsorted desired entity such as Sansi of ranjit singh without providing any kind of minimal sources and refine citations he randomly change its historical context without any source enhancements as I mentioned earlier @LubanaPB02 not only change the perameter but also change his early literally a case COU Vandalism @The joy of all things thansk Supreme~limitless (talk) 21:56, 2 October 2024 (UTC)Reply
Its usually case of vandalism if you formalised the intention of user because its need extended confirm access to propagate its original aspirated version Supreme~limitless (talk) 22:00, 2 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

Semi-protected edit request on 2 October 2024

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Latest comment: 10 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Hey fallow moderators, straightforwardly jumping to the mettle of topic so look there i provide the summary if you are willing to revert the the older version before then vandal LubanaPB02 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · nuke contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) make it sure source still attributing to be previous perimeter with Sandhawalia Jats and Sidhu[1][2][note 1] you can clearly figure it out in rest of periferal in revision only without any expertise Supreme~limitless (talk) 22:21, 2 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. I have absolutely no idea what you are requesting here. PianoDan (talk) 23:11, 2 October 2024 (UTC)Reply

References

  1. ^ Arora, A. C. (1984). "Ranjit Singh's Relations with the Jind State". In Singh, Fauja; Arora, A. C. (eds.). Maharaja Ranjit Singh: Politics, Society, and Economy. Punjabi University. p. 86. ISBN 978-81-7380-772-5. OCLC 557676461. Even before the birth of Ranjit Singh, cordial relations had been established between the Sukarchakia Misal and the Phulkian House of Jind. ... the two Sikh Jat chiefships had cultivated intimate relationship with each other by means of a matrimonial alliance. Maha Singh, the son of the founder of Sukarchakia Misal, Charat Singh, was married to Raj Kaur, the daughter of the founder of the Jind State, Gajpat Singh. The marriage was celebrated in 1774 at Badrukhan, then capital of Jind1, with pomp and grandeur worthy of the two chiefships. ... Ranjit Singh was the offspring of this wedlock.
  2. ^ Singh, Patwant; Rai, Jyoti M. (2008). Empire of the Sikhs: the life and times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. London: Peter Owen. p. 69. ISBN 978-0720613230.
  3. ^ McLeod, W. H. (2009). The A to Z of Sikhism. Scarecrow Press. p. 172. ISBN 978-0810863446. Sikhs remember Maharaja Ranjit Singh with respect and affection as their greatest ruler. Ranjit Singh was a Sansi and this identity has led some to claim that his caste affiliation was with the low-caste Sansi tribe of the same name. A much more likely theory is that he belonged to the Jat got that used the same name. The Sandhanvalias belonged to the same got.
  4. ^ Singh, Birinder Pal (2012). 'Criminal' Tribes of Punjab. Taylor & Francis. p. 114. ISBN 978-1136517860. Ibbetson and Rose and later, Bedi, had clarified that the Sansis should not be confused with a Jat (Jutt) clan named Sansi to which perhaps Maharaja Ranjit Singh also belonged.

Semi-protected edit request on 22 November 2024

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Latest comment: 9 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Maharaja Ranjeet Singh was Warraich Jat Sikh Not Sandhawalia and Sandhawalia is a clan not Surname but now people use it as Surname 180.214.143.205 (talk) 11:39, 22 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. M.Bitton (talk) 13:05, 22 November 2024 (UTC)Reply

Semi-protected edit request on 25 December 2024

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Latest comment: 8 months ago2 comments2 people in discussion

Change Sikhism to Sikhi throughout the article The article wrote Sikhism instead of sikhi. Sikhism is not correct because the word “sikhi” means learner which is what we as Sikhs are, so to add “ism” is completely changing the words meaning. 2607:FEA8:80A7:E600:D456:C199:C428:5467 (talk) 10:23, 25 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

  Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit semi-protected}} template. Sikhism is a valid term according to our article on the subject. If you disagree, you might want to start a discussion over on that talk page. – Anne drew 21:21, 29 December 2024 (UTC)Reply

Caste background of Ranjit Singh, Jat or Sansi?

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Latest comment: 18 days ago11 comments2 people in discussion

Since a recent editor (@Wikiravidas) is trying to make changes regarding this, here are the sources which support that Ranjit Singh belonged to a Jat background: [1][2][note 2]

References

  1. ^ Arora, A. C. (1984). "Ranjit Singh's Relations with the Jind State". In Singh, Fauja; Arora, A. C. (eds.). Maharaja Ranjit Singh: Politics, Society, and Economy. Punjabi University. p. 86. ISBN 978-81-7380-772-5. OCLC 557676461. Even before the birth of Ranjit Singh, cordial relations had been established between the Sukarchakia Misal and the Phulkian House of Jind. ... the two Sikh Jat chiefships had cultivated intimate relationship with each other by means of a matrimonial alliance. Maha Singh, the son of the founder of Sukarchakia Misal, Charat Singh, was married to Raj Kaur, the daughter of the founder of the Jind State, Gajpat Singh. The marriage was celebrated in 1774 at Badrukhan, then capital of Jind1, with pomp and grandeur worthy of the two chiefships. ... Ranjit Singh was the offspring of this wedlock.
  2. ^ Singh, Patwant; Rai, Jyoti M. (2008). Empire of the Sikhs: the life and times of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. London: Peter Owen. p. 69. ISBN 978-0720613230.
  3. ^ McLeod, W. H. (2009). The A to Z of Sikhism. Scarecrow Press. p. 172. ISBN 978-0810863446. Sikhs remember Maharaja Ranjit Singh with respect and affection as their greatest ruler. Ranjit Singh was a Sansi and this identity has led some to claim that his caste affiliation was with the low-caste Sansi tribe of the same name. A much more likely theory is that he belonged to the Jat got that used the same name. The Sandhanvalias belonged to the same got.
  4. ^ Singh, Birinder Pal (2012). 'Criminal' Tribes of Punjab. Taylor & Francis. p. 114. ISBN 978-1136517860. Ibbetson and Rose and later, Bedi, had clarified that the Sansis should not be confused with a Jat (Jutt) clan named Sansi to which perhaps Maharaja Ranjit Singh also belonged.

Clearly, Ranjit Singh was a Jat. His Jat clan also called "Sansi", which led to the confusion that he belonged to the Sansi tribe, which shared the same name. This what reliable sources have to say on the matter.

The sources that Wikiravidas added to somehow support that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi:

1) Shackle, C. (1984). The Sikhs. Atlantic Publishers & Distri. p. 48. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - This is a fake book or a mistake on Google Books. This is actually a reprint of the British Raj-era source: 'Sikhs' (1899) by A. H. Bingley, thus should not be used for caste-related claims as per WP:RAJ. See the link to the book on Google Books (see: [2]), you can see a preview of the title-page where it clearly states the author was A. H. Bingley, not C. Shackle.

2) Brandt, Carmen (2018). The 'Bedes' of Bengal: Establishing an Ethnic Group through Portrayals. LIT Verlag Münster. p. 250. ISBN 978-3-643-90670-0. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - This is the full quote from the book that Wikiravidas cited that supposedly supports their claim that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi on pages 249–250:

"After the discussion of various narratives of origin of different Sansi groups located in different parts of present-day India and Pakistan in the first chapter (Singh 1965: 1-12), what emerges is the fact that each narrative refers to respectable roots of the Sansis. In the chapter "Maharaja Ranjit-Singh: The most glorious Sansi" (ibid.: 13-22) the author tries to prove that the eminent historic figure Maharaja Ranjit Singh essentially has Sansi roots. It is obvious that the author uses this genealogy in his publication primarily for reinforcing a noble history for the Sansis in general."

It clearly discusses how Singh (1965) tries to attribute Ranjit Singh as being a Sansi to aggrandize the caste in his book. Nowhere in the book do the authors state they believe Rnajit Singh had a Sansi origin.

3) Sher, Sher Singh (1965). The Sansis of Punjab: A Gypsy and De-notified Tribe of Rajput Origin. Munshiram Manoharlal. p. 9. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - As stated in the above source, the author attempted to link Ranjit Singh to a Sansi origin to aggrandize the caste. Also, is this Sher Singh "Sher" even a reliable source? Does not appear to be a historian.

4) Singh, Birinder Pal (29 August 2019). Indigeneity and Occupational Change: The Tribes of Punjab. Taylor & Francis. ISBN 978-1-000-69977-7. Retrieved 13 August 2025. - Here is the full quote from the book:

"Sher claims that Sher-i-Punjab Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to the Sansi community. He contests: 'the history of the Sansis of the Punjab would remain incomplete without an account of the life and ancestry of the great Maharaja ... His real ancestry has been camouflaged by the Jats. The Sansis consider it an historical injustice to them' (1965, 13). Ibbetson and Rose have deliberated on this aspect in the following account:

A Hindu Jat clan (agricultural) found in Montgomery and Amritsar. In the latter District Raja Sansi a village 7 miles from Amritsar is the ancestral home of the Sindhanwalia family which claims Rajput descent and belongs to this got. They are also found in Gujranwala. In Gujranwala they are described as an off shoot of the Bhatti clan and they take their name from one Sansi, whose great-grandson, Udrat, came from Bhatner in Hindustan 18 generations ago, and adopted a pastoral life in that district. (1970, 362)

Jaggi has a different take on this issue. He says: 'There is Sanhsi caste among Jatts in Punjab. But this word is derived from the Sanskrit's "sahsi", that means courageous (himmatwala), one with guts (juratwala). This has no relation with the Sansi" caste. Maharaja Ranjit Singh belonged to this Jatt got' (2005, 221; no italics)."

Again, where exactly do the authors of this book assert that Ranjit Singh was somehow a Sansi? Again, they are providing commentary on the claim of Sher (1965) who tried to link Ranjit Singh to the Sansi caste. They further provide an opposing view by Jaggi which explains that Ranjit Singh was a Jatt.

MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 02:59, 13 August 2025 (UTC) MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 02:59, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply

@MaplesyrupSushi - Descendants of Sansis of Raja Sansi rose to great power, and they could establish matrimonial relationships with Jatts. Budha Sansi was the first member of family who became Sikh, Comment from books named 'The Sansis of Punjab -A Gypsy and De-notified Tribe of Rajput Origin' Published in 1965. Wikiravidas (talk) 03:55, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Wikiravidas - Did you read my post? This exact book and its unreliability was discussed, in-fact it was discussed in two citations you yourself referenced in your edits. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 03:57, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@MaplesyrupSushi- Who you are to claim unreliability of anyone's published work. Even the website of sukerchakia clan mentioned Ranjit Singh was ancestors were Sansi.
https://sukerchakia.com/sansi-sikh/ Wikiravidas (talk) 04:03, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Wikiravidas - You lack understanding of Wikipedia policy. I will be taking this to the admins. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:04, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@MaplesyrupSushi - Tribune Newspaper Heading - Vimukt Jati assn stages protest-( Comment - Ram Rashpal said Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s elders belonged to Sansi community, who had later converted to Sikhism.)
Link - https://www.tribuneindia.com/2014/20141114/asrtrib.htm#12 Wikiravidas (talk) 03:57, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Wikiravidas - News articles are not reliable sources for history, as per: WP:HISTRS and WP:SCHOLARSHIP. Also, the news article states that a man named Ram Rashpal Singh, association president of the Vimukt Jati Welfare Association (with the Vimukt Jati being a former so-called "criminal tribe", like the Sansis, obvious conflict of interest) claims that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi. Again, unreliable source. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:02, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Wikiravidas - Since you are unable to provide any reliable sources that Ranjit Singh was a Sansi, please revert your edits. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:03, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@MaplesyrupSushi - It appears probable that from Sansi the Sindhanwalias and Sansis have a common descendant. The Sansis are thievish, and if the history of Maharaja Ranjit Singh is attentively considered, it will appear that much of his policy and many of his actions had a true Sansi complexion. - From book name- Handbook on Sikhs for the Use of Regimental Officers - Page- 128- Published in 1896
https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Handbook_on_Sikhs_for_the_Use_of_Regimen/LLcbM7qePMwC?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=maharaja+ranjit+singh+sansi&pg=PA128&printsec=frontcover Wikiravidas (talk) 04:20, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@Wikiravidas Unreliable source. British Raj era sources are not reliable for caste. See: WP:RAJ. MaplesyrupSushi (talk) 04:21, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply
@MaplesyrupSushi - Maharaja Ranjit Singh of Punjab belonged to the Sansi caste. The Sansi caste, a low caste, was later on designated as a criminal tribe by the British . (After independence the Punjab Government in one decision changed the caste structure… …… Book name—Strategies of Social Change in India,page - 163, published in 1996
https://www.google.com.au/books/edition/Strategies_of_Social_Change_in_India/7lKM4aWhIH0C?hl=en&gbpv=1&dq=ranjit+singh+sansi&pg=PA163&printsec=frontcover Wikiravidas (talk) 04:34, 13 August 2025 (UTC)Reply


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