Wikipedia

BarrelProof

Joined 4 December 2010

If you wish to be able to email me, please let me know at User talk:BarrelProof and I'll enable email. Currently I have that disabled to avoid the new (2025) login verification requirement imposed for "suspicious" logins. I keep bumping into that and being unable to access my Wikipedia account.

This account was created in December 2010, initially with an interest in editing pages related to whisky – although my interests drift broadly. I am here to build an encyclopedia.

I am not especially expert on the subject of whisky, but I am interested in learning more about it, and I have had the impression that some of the Wikipedia material on this subject has contained errors and misconceptions. I have a fondness for trying to find objective truth and avoid incorrect impressions and marketing spin. I like to find and understand the actual rules that govern the making and labeling of the products (and where those rules apply and where they do not). I like to try to penetrate through the marketing messages to find the real facts, clearly identify the structure of who is the actual parent company that produces various products, and establish where and how they do it. I may not always get it right, but I'm trying.

Some particular whisky-related topics that I have taken a special interest in include:

  • Whisky, Bourbon whiskey, American whiskey, Canadian whisky, Scotch whisky, Irish whiskey, List of whisky brands, and various related articles about types and brands of whisky and the companies that produce them.
  • Straight whiskey – I created this article after noticing that this important category of whiskey had no article.
  • Sazerac Company – I created this article after noticing that this major private beverage-making company did not have a Wikipedia article.
  • Willett Distillery, a.k.a. Kentucky Bourbon Distillers (KBD) – I substantially expanded this article after noticing that there was not much information in it. KBD is a private family-operated company in Bardstown, Kentucky that produces several of its own brands of (mostly premium quality) Bourbon and rye whiskey and also works as a contract bottling company. This company tends to stay out of the limelight – their brands don't seem especially well known, and they tend not to put their actual company name on their bottlings. However, they have recently been increasing their profile – e.g., they rebranded themselves back to their previous name (the "Willett Distillery"), resumed distilling operations, began conducting site tours, rejoined the Kentucky Distillers Association (KDA), became an inaugural member of the Kentucky Bourbon Trail craft tour, and got their KDA membership upgraded to become the inaugural "Proof"-level member of the KDA.
  • Old Forester – I created this article after noticing that it was just a redirect to the Brown-Forman article, which barely mentioned this major and historically important product (continuously on the market longer than any other brand of bourbon, the first bourbon sold exclusively in sealed bottles, and the first major product of a major (still family-controlled) spirits company now publicly traded on the New York Stock Exchange).
  • Beam Suntory (formerly Beam Inc.) and Fortune Brands Home & Security – I created these articles when the Fortune Brands holding company split to create two companies (shortly after selling its Acushnet operations), before Beam was bought by Suntory.
  • MGP of Indiana – I created this article (as Lawrenceburg Distillers Indiana before the facility was bought out and renamed) after noticing the importance of this low-key producer, which narrowly escaped being shut down at least twice, and now sources key products that bear the labels of various brands – especially including various rye whiskey brands.
  • Emperador (brandy) – I created this article just after discovering that this the top-selling brand of brandy in the world (by volume).
  • Alliance Global Group – I created this article after noticing that Emperador, Inc. (producer of Emperador brandy) had purchased Whyte and Mackay for £430m, and was surprised to discover not only that the company that made this big purchase had no article on Wikipedia, but that it was a part of an even larger holding company that didn't have one either.
  • List of historic whisky distilleries – There tends to be a lot of confusing claims about the history of distilleries – e.g., with several different distilleries appearing to claim to be the oldest one in some region or other category. Collecting such information in one place may be helpful to sort this out.

Customizations

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Wikipedia status notes

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My notes on miscellaneous topics are found at User:BarrelProof/Notes

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Some useful pointers for Wikipedia editing (collected here partly to remind myself where to find them):

Unusual article name styling

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(Unusual capitalizations for composition titles are listed separately below.) A sampling of unusual article names (relative to MOS:TM and WP:AT (incl. WP:TITLETM) for cases seemingly not covered by WP:DIACRITICS) – see also WP:STAGENAME – also note that MOS:TM doesn't exactly say that it applies to the titles of works, but it includes several such items as examples (skate., Se7en, and Alien3):

Potential summarization:

  • People seem relatively tolerant of strange stuff when it comes to the titles of creative works.
  • People also seem relatively tolerant when it comes to the names of creative artists, in comparison to, e.g., the names of mundane brick-and-mortar companies (esp. outside of high-tech).
  • It matters whether there is some alternative name available. Regarding the name of something, if those who create a name make it unusually stylized and offer no apparent alternative to the world, they can make it stick.
  • Recent outcomes on move discussions for Deadmau5, Sunn O))), and Tech N9ne seem to indicate an increased tolerance for decorative character usage (at least in relation to creative artists). These seem to teeter on the edge of what is considered acceptable.
  • Se7en had inconsistent usage in reliable sources, and thus seems to have fallen firmly the side of avoiding the decorative character use.
  • People seem more tolerant of unusual formatting for topics relating to computers and high-tech.
  • Unusual formatting is sometimes associated with trying to project a youthful or rebellious image, and its use by people perceived as legitimately youthful or rebellious seems more tolerated than its simple use in run-of-the-mill brand names (e.g. "Macy*s" or "[ yellow tail ]"). In this context, someone who removes the stylization could risk projecting an 'uncool' image of themselves.
  • Omitting spaces seems like a relatively common and relatively accepted phenomenon.
  • Substituting a string of unusual characters for profanity is a well-established convention to indicate "expletive deleted", and is thus generally understood and accepted.
  • As long as numbers are read as numbers (instead of being substitutes for letters), they don't bother people so much. That doesn't explain U-J3RK5, but that usage is so unusual that the reader notices the strangeness immediately and either rapidly figures out what is intended or gives up and just treats the name as a string of arbitrary characters. Also, in this case, there is no alternative that seems to be available that doesn't seem insulting or uncool.
  • Decorative full stops, and especially terminating full stops, are frowned upon in Wikipedia article titles, as in the "skate." example of MOS:TM and the prior RM discussions for Bakuman, WE Communications, Crazy, Stupid, Love, Damn (Kendrick Lamar album), Done (The Band Perry song), Fun (band), Gangsta (manga), Hat (Mike Keneally album), IMP (band), Janet (album), Kobato, Lovestrong, Mad Love (JoJo album), Melody (Japanese singer), Moon (visual novel), Ms. Vampire Who Lives in My Neighborhood, Okay (album), Respect (magazine), Shakira (album), The Goods: Live Hard, Sell Hard, They (duo), Withering to Death, Tori (album), WSJ Magazine, and Your Name. For a non-terminating full stop, see India Arie. On the other hand, we have Anderson .Paak (consistent in sources), Love. Angel. Music. Baby. (no consensus to move 31 January 2019), Portugal. The Man (no move 18 September 2017), V., will.i.am, and Pretty. Odd. (good points in discussion but not moved 15 April 2009). There has also been some controversy at Emma (2020 film) and John Adams (book). Exclamation marks are more case-by-case; there are Mother!, Airplane!, Don't!, Jeopardy!, Panic! at the Disco, but Alley Cats Strike.
  • Avoiding all-caps seems generally agreed. Note that Oneok was moved in September 2018 after two RMs. Pvris is another example that followed later. On the other hand, there is IMP (band).
  • V (poem) (RM by me due to sources) versus V. (it is an abbreviated name of an entity per the article, no consensus in RM closure of 7 April 2015) does not seem like a problem
  • Sujatha Baliga was moved to conventional caps

Note:

  • What is the history of "widespread use" and "significant majority ... consistently include" in MOS:TMRULES and "preferably the most commonly used version" in WP:STAGENAME?
    • "widespread use" and "significant majority ... consistently use" were there at the end of 2015, 2016 and 2017
    • "significant majority ... consistently use" was added in February 2015 in this edit by Blueboar

Footnote: WP:TITLEFORMAT (within WP:AT) has this: An exception is made when the quotation marks are part of a name or title (as in the movie "Crocodile" Dundee or the album "Heroes"). Quotes:

Footnote: WP:OFFICIALNAMES is an essay, not a policy or guideline.

Footnote: See MOS:LIGATURE for ligature usages, such as Synæsthesia (Canadian band).

WP:UCN (in WP:AT):

Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it prefers to use the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources. This includes usage in the sources used as references for the article. If the name of a person, group, object, or other article topic changes, then more weight should be given to the name used in reliable sources published after the name change than in those before the change. For cases where usage differs among English-speaking countries, see also National varieties of English below.

WP:TITLETM (also in WP:AT):

Article titles follow standard English text formatting in the case of trademarks, unless the trademarked spelling is demonstrably the most common usage in sources independent of the owner of the trademark. Items in full or partial uppercase (such as Invader ZIM) should have standard capitalization (Invader Zim); however, if the name is ambiguous, and one meaning is usually capitalized, this is one possible method of disambiguation.


Exceptions include article titles with the first letter lowercase and the second letter uppercase, such as iPod and eBay. For these, see the technical restrictions guideline.

MOS:TM:

  • Capitalize trademarks, as with proper names.
    • avoid: nintendo
    • instead, use: Nintendo
  • Don't expect readers to know, based on trademarks or brand names, what item is being discussed. For example:
    • avoid: Police in Miami confiscated 25 stolen Rolexes.
    • instead, use: Police in Miami confiscated 25 stolen Rolex watches.
    • however: The Prime Minister indicated that the Cadbury Creme Egg was delicious. (This is allowed because the product name includes the product type.)
    • another example: The Prime Minister indicated that the police in Miami had confiscated his Apple Watch. (Avoid Apple Watch watch.)
  • Follow standard English text formatting and capitalization rules, even if the trademark owner considers nonstandard formatting "official", as long as this is a style already in widespread use, rather than inventing a new one:
    • avoid: TIME, KISS, ASUS
    • instead, use: Time, Kiss, Asus
  • Using all caps is preferred if the letters are pronounced individually, even if they don't stand for anything. For instance, use SAT for the (U.S.) standardized test or KFC for the fast food restaurant. Using all lowercase letters may likewise be acceptable if it is done universally by sources, such as with xkcd.
  • Do not use the ™ and ® symbols, or similar, in either article text or citations, unless unavoidably necessary for context (for instance, to distinguish between generic and brand names for drugs).
    • avoid: LittleBigPlanet™, REALTOR®
    • instead, use: LittleBigPlanet, Realtor
  • Avoid using special characters that are not pronounced, are included purely for decoration, or simply substitute for English words (e.g., "♥" used for "love", "!" used for "i") or for normal punctuation, unless a significant majority of reliable sources that are independent of the subject consistently include the special character when discussing the subject. Similarly, avoid special stylization, such as superscripting or boldface, in an attempt to emulate a trademark. In the article about a trademark, it is acceptable to use decorative characters the first time the trademark appears, but thereafter, an alternative that follows the standard rules of spelling and punctuation should be used:
    • avoid: macy*s, skate., [ yellow tail ], Se7en, Alien3, Toys Я Us
    • instead, use: Macy's, Skate, Yellow Tail, Seven, Alien 3, Toys "R" Us
  • Trademarks in CamelCase are a judgment call. CamelCase may be used where it reflects general usage and makes the trademark more readable.
    • OxyContin or Oxycontin—editor's choice
    • however: PlayStation (This is allowed because Playstation is not widely used.)

See also User:Fuhghettaboutit/Wikipedia:Title stylization

Unusual article capitalizations for titles of creative works

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See also (and follow up on) MOS:CT, WP:NCCAPS, WP:Naming conventions (music)#Capitalization

For some discussion outcomes that support MOS:CT, see Talk:Do It like a Dude, Talk:Moves like Jagger, Talk:Someone like Me, Talk:Someone like You (Adele song), Talk:Love You like a Love Song, Talk:Bridge over Troubled Water, Talk:A Boy Was Born, Talk:Nuttin' but Love (2nd RM outcome), Talk:Nothing but the Truth (1941 film), Talk:Everything Starts with an 'E', Talk:A Winter amid the Ice, Talk:See, amid the Winter's Snow, Talk:Four past Midnight, Talk:Nothing But the Truth.

Nicknames in quotes

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WP:NICKNAME advises to "avoid ... adding a nickname ... in quotes between first and last name. For example: Bill Clinton, not William "Bill" Clinton." This guidance doesn't seem very strongly agreed for cases where the name with the quotes is commonly used in sources – especially when used by performers as a stage name. However, the use of the name with quotes seems avoided for disreputable characters, except for Talk:Raymond "Shrimp Boy" Chow, and Talk:Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán. (WP:TITLEFORMAT says "Crocodile" Dundee and "Heroes" are O.K.)

See also MOS:NICKNAME, which is not the same as WP:NICKNAME. Also, there is WP:NICKUSE, which is an old essay said to be superseded by MOS:NICKNAME.

Discussion in 2015: Wikipedia talk:Article titles/Archive 54#Nickname in quotation marks in title

On article titles for songs and albums

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Per WP:NCM / WP:SONGDAB, I generally believe that the names of artists should be included in the titles of articles about their songs and albums. That makes the titles more clear and recognizable, and avoids future maintenance headaches over whether to consider some particular song or album as primary. Including the name of the artist is helpful to readers, the popularity of music is volatile, and new releases often appear with the same names (or strings of lyrics that might be mistaken for a name). IMHO, there is basically negative value in making song and album articles more ambiguous by removing the names of the artists from their titles. In many cases, we can easily discover that there are already several other songs with the same name that are covered on Wikipedia.

Other considerations include the depth of coverage and indications of exceptional noteworthiness.

Here is a good way to search for album names.

Generally, I think that if a typical English-speaking person sees an article title and thinks, based on the title, that they know what the article should be about, that is what it should be about.

Regarding WP:SMALLDETAILS, see discussion at Talk:Want You Back (Haim song).

Allmusic reliability and its use to establish notability

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Wikiproject Albums

  • Wikipedia:WikiProject Albums/Sources – "Biography/reviews are fine, but do not use genre sidebar, as it is generated from a separate source from the prose. Don't use review score when review is not present, or mention the 'Album Pick' designation." and "AllMusic's genre sidebar should be avoided. Previous discussions at WP:ALBUMS and RSN have evinced that they can be incongruous with the reviewer's prose, which should take precedent over the sidebar (e.g. AllMusic's sidebar classifies Rhythm Killers as "reggae", while the reviewer observes "no reggae in sight"; likewise, AllMusic's sidebar says that Staind includes the post-grunge genre while the reviewer says that the band "no longer sound like post-grungers...")."

Notability of music

(8 is the lowest number completed in exhaustive checking)

Reliable sources noticeboard

(78 is the lowest number completed in exhaustive checking)

Interesting relations to WP:PRIMARYTOPIC

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  • Mustang, a breed of horse (see its Talk page, not moved in 2013 and again 29 July 2014, with interesting comments on its Talk page)
  • Corvette, a type of ship (not moved in 2009 and 9 June 2011)
  • Plymouth, a city in England (not moved in 2010 and 3 March 2014)
  • Pontiac, a brand of automobile (not moved 21 November 2015)
  • Cambridge, a city in England (no consensus to move in 2010 and 1 June 2012)
  • Easy Jet (horse), a horse (no consensus to move 4 November 2015, finally agreed to move in November 2022 after an RM by me)

Memorable episodes, biases, and content disputes

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Irish Whiskey

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In the Talk section of the article on Irish Whiskey, you say: "I am a bit confused by this concept of a number of times that a whiskey is distilled. I can understand how you could count the number of times that a product has been processed by a pot still, but most of the spirits in most whiskey are from a continuous still. A continuous still, manufactured specifically to do so, can presumably produce approximately any desired level of alcoholic purity. The concept of a number of distillations seems rather strange in that context. Does it make sense? —BarrelProof (talk) 17:22, 24 March 2011 (UTC)" I see that you are almost totally into things American. There is a huge world outside once you leave American shores. Very few of the 82 Nation/Nation States that distil, blend or manufacture whisky use column stills. All malt whiskies come off pot stills. A quick look at https://noelonwhisky.blogspot.com/2020/04/that-peg-of-scotch.html will enhance your wide knowledge. And https://noelonwhisky.blogspot.com/2020/02/whisky-goes-global.html will show you how North Korea, handles its 40/42% ABV whiskies in 620 ml bottles, apart from a few other unlikely nations. Moitraanak (talk) 16:33, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

National Distillers

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There's no article about National Distillers!

Bourbon reference resources

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Bourbon licensed during Prohibition

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Not only Prohibition, but also the two world wars involved restraints on the trade.

References

  1. ^ a b https://explorekyhistory.ky.gov/items/show/416 this

Grammar

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A grammar quiz[dead link] that I thought was worth the effort.

which & thatThis user knows how to use which and that correctly.
if & whetherThis user knows how to use "if" and "whether" correctly.
less & fewerThis user understands the difference between less & fewer.
itsThis user understands the difference between its (of it) and it's (it is or it has).
you oneThis user knows that one should not use "you" in encyclopedia articles or other formal works.

On apostrophes in U.S. place names, see my comments at Talk:Penn's Creek massacre.

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Something is wrong with this article

xkcdThis user cannot go to bed when someone is wrong on the Internet.

Circuit diagram, Self-description, I'll bet on six

So you've made a mistake and it's public...

This user knows how to
Find x.		 

Barnstars and accolades

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  Happy 2nd Anniversary
As a token of my appreciation for your delectable efforts, please enjoy with my compliments. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:05, 11 December 2012 (UTC)


  The Original Barnstar
Amazing work! WellsWiggins (talk) 19:47, 25 July 2014 (UTC)


  The Barnstar of Diligence
...to thank you for unscrambling and tidying up the complex history of move requests at Talk:Hillary Rodham Clinton. MelanieN (talk) 17:06, 28 April 2014 (UTC)


  The Civility Barnstar
You deserve some Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve, as you exemplified patience and civility in the face of provocation, while tweaking the subject and the references. Well done! Of course, the aforesaid (at least in its 23 year iteration) is currently out of stock in most bars and liquor stores, so you will have to settle for something else. You can't always get what you want. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 01:50, 30 July 2014 (UTC)


  The Bluegrass Barnstar
For your excellent work in adding clarifying material to List of cities in Kentucky, you are very much deserving of this award. Cheers! Stevie is the man! Talk • Work 13:28, 7 August 2014 (UTC)


  The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
Happy birthday! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:02, 4 December 2014 (UTC)


  The Copyeditor's Barnstar
For expanding the Cassius Clay album In ictu oculi (talk) 14:43, 11 December 2014 (UTC)


  The Barnstar of Diligence
Thank you very much for your help! Breckham101 (talk) 17:46, 31 January 2015 (UTC)


  The Special Barnstar
You have always been a great person towards me, and I feel like I have never fully expressed my gratitude towards you for being a friend and mentor to me, and for all the positive contributions that you provide to this project. This barnstar is for your kindness, honesty, and work. Thank you!-- MarshalN20 Talk 06:01, 17 July 2015 (UTC)


  The Half Barnstar
Thanks for helping another editor at DYK (re Afghan alcohol) Victuallers (talk) 09:53, 26 November 2015 (UTC)


  The Western Governors University Barnstar
For good and thorough work pertaining to articles about the Western Governors University.

Thanks for helping to support the WGU Article. Paul Smith111977 (talk) 14:19, 27 April 2018 (UTC)


  The Tireless Contributor Barnstar
For your tireless contributionS....popcorn sutton!!.......BarrelProof is a Master Editor

and is entitled to display this Platinum Editor Star...and can use thank you..and in the wikipedia community it is a rare thing ...like Popcorn...Rip....

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.69.59.4 (talk) 02:20, 9 July 2018‎ (UTC)

Thanks! —BarrelProof (talk) 02:35, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

you are welcome... POPCORN would lke the code..!!

File:Pot Still Diagram.jpg
just one more...A barnstar for you ....popcorn sutton...AMAZING JOB
  The Working Wikipedian's Barnstar
A well-deserved barnstar for all your hard work here. POPCORN would lke the code.. This user is one of the 2000 most active English Wikipedians of all time.

POPCORN would lke the code..and you said thanks...so double down....

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 186.69.59.4 (talk) 10:13, 9 July 2018‎ (UTC)


  The Good Heart Barnstar
For your thoughtfulness and concern in assisting User:Poise1978 when they appeared to need someone to just make sure they were in a happy place. Lemon martini (talk) 14:10, 24 September 2018 (UTC)


  The Editor's Barnstar
Thanks for your editing at Bourbon. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 10:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
Thanks! —⁠ ⁠BarrelProof (talk) 17:19, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
I thought we did well in resolving that dispute. And then you really improved the article. Cheers! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:15, 2 May 2024 (UTC)
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