- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. W.marsh 16:04, 9 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
This article is blatantly self-publicity and seems to being continually altered and updated, quite possibly by the subject themselves. I fail to see how a very minor presenter of a gaming quiz programme primarily on non-terrestrial television is a suitable subject for Wikipedia. This undoubtable falls short of theWP:VAIN criteria.
Any edits and changes which cast doubt on the credance of the entry are immediately reverted with juvenile spin. Wiki is not a CV page for desperate wannabee starlets. This is a serious encyclopedia project and should be treated as such.
Forgive me if I have done this incorrectly. I am relatively new to Wiki, but have become passionate about what it stands for, and find this to be beneath the standards it should rightly quest for.
James — James Leftovic (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- I have amended two sections to remove offending items and tidy the entire entry. As an ITV1 presenter she needs to be in Wikipedia for Wikipedia to serve it's purpose. — 81.158.132.86 (talk • contribs) has made few or no other edits outside this topic.
- This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 12:40, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - both users above have only edited this page and the article in question. This debate was relisted due to a mistake on my part. MER-C 08:14, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, one of numerous presenters/hosts for various shows on various channels down the dial. --Dhartung | Talk 08:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete as it falls foul of WP:SAYNOTOMINORQUIZSHOWHOSTS. Vizjim 11:39, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I profoundly disagree that we need this
twaddlearticle in order for Wikipedia to fulfil its purpose. When we still have titanic figures such as Giovanni Punto with no articles (until I created one, anyway) I think we can safely leave the daytime quiz show hosts for later. Guy 12:52, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply] - Delete Though I originally submitted this - and yes I've only posted here, I had posted before but without logging in - however I needed to do so in order to suggest the deletion. Can someone help me - it seems to have gone from the article - does this mean the deletion isn't happening. Sorry to be confused I'm quite new, I just feel this is important. I also note that someone has now taken out the fact that this presenter works for a channel who's repuatation has been severely questioned ethically. It really does have no place on wikie!
- Delete — Not notable - as JzG implied, we don't need an article on every tv presenter (ever to appear on TV // ever).... Martinp23 23:43, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - the closing admin may wish to note that the AfD notice was absent from the article for 18 hours - should consensus need to be formed (which I'd doubt...) at the end of the current time, I feel that the AfD should be relisted, at the admin's discretion Martinp23 23:45, 3 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - whether or not Ms Kramer is important or not to classical historians or whoever, it must be noted a person who regularly appears on a terrestrial TV channel for 6 hours a week is going to be a part of TV history for good or bad. For them to be not noted in Wikipedia shows a snobbery, an elitism and a lacking. Wikipedia is a virtual encyclopedia, if it were printed you'd need to edit, but not on a web site. I should check if the Cillit Bang character 'Barry Scott' or Sugar Puffs 'Honey Monster' are here too. They all make part of TV's chequered History. I have looked at other "to delete" pages & some I've wondered why. Some clearly are the "twaddle" as noted above.
- Strong keep. Appears to confer notability via being a TV presenter. --badlydrawnjeff talk 16:21, 4 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete, as my rant on TRIVIA shows (who reads this page anyway?) send this Wiki to oblivion & for all the time wasted on it by thou & thee, put it into something more worthwhile. Wikipedia is a great source of solid info, not annoying rubbish like this entry has become.
- Strong Keep - TV presenter on major television network is notable. If the article appears like self publicity, that doesn't mean the subject isn't notable; it means the article needs to be changed, not deleted. --Oakshade 03:44, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong Delete I think this person simply isn't worthy of a place in wiki, a non-entity on minor TV station in the UK. Perhaps we should refer them to IMDB where its suitable.
- ITV1 is a major TV station in the UK. --Oakshade 22:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- But she isn't a presenter on it. Moreover, do read the guidelines - "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by: Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers; A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following; An independent biography; Name recognition; Commercial endorsements". See WP:BIO. Vizjim 00:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Also see "just because someone doesn't fall into one of these categories doesn't mean an article on the person should automatically be deleted." I think she meets what you posted, but even if she comes close, she certainly meets this part. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I was just about to type exactly what Badlydrawnjeff did, but just to respond to Vizjim's incorrect information, she in fact IS a presenter on a show shown on ITV1. --Oakshade 00:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- No, she isn't. She is a presenter on ITVPlay, a cable channel with such minority interest that it almost never registers a statistically significant number of viewers. Content from this channel is sometimes simulcast on ITV, but that does not make her an ITV presenter. Vizjim 08:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- My point confirmed. She's a presenter on a show shown on ITV1. Thanks. --Oakshade 15:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Pierce Brosnan's films are frequently shown on ITV: does that make him an "ITV actor"? Her paycheck is issued by ITVPlay. Vizjim 13:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Quite a stretch there in assuming the accouting payroll details of ITV. I'm guesssing (as you were guessing) that all ITV employees are officially paid by ITV plc or ITV Network Limited. And for Brosnan, those are repeated older feature films, not first run TV shows. --Oakshade 15:14, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Pierce Brosnan's films are frequently shown on ITV: does that make him an "ITV actor"? Her paycheck is issued by ITVPlay. Vizjim 13:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- My point confirmed. She's a presenter on a show shown on ITV1. Thanks. --Oakshade 15:41, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- No, she isn't. She is a presenter on ITVPlay, a cable channel with such minority interest that it almost never registers a statistically significant number of viewers. Content from this channel is sometimes simulcast on ITV, but that does not make her an ITV presenter. Vizjim 08:55, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I was just about to type exactly what Badlydrawnjeff did, but just to respond to Vizjim's incorrect information, she in fact IS a presenter on a show shown on ITV1. --Oakshade 00:16, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Also see "just because someone doesn't fall into one of these categories doesn't mean an article on the person should automatically be deleted." I think she meets what you posted, but even if she comes close, she certainly meets this part. --badlydrawnjeff talk 00:09, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- But she isn't a presenter on it. Moreover, do read the guidelines - "Notable actors and television personalities who have appeared in well-known films or television productions. Notability can be determined by: Multiple features in popular culture publications such as Vogue, GQ, Elle, FHM or national newspapers; A large fan base, fan listing or "cult" following; An independent biography; Name recognition; Commercial endorsements". See WP:BIO. Vizjim 00:05, 7 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- ITV1 is a major TV station in the UK. --Oakshade 22:39, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Strong keep. She ONLY appears on the 'Make Your Play' show which is on ITV for a longer duration than it is on ITV PLAY. Check the start times, you'll see the ITV version starts up to an hour earlier than on ITV PLAY. Therefore in this case, it's more an ITV programme, simulcast on both ITV and segments on ITV PLAY. For this to be debated so strongly, we are drawn to it because we like Alex Kramer (or don't!). Admittedly she is currently little-known outside of TV Quiz circles, where she is very popular (check out fan sites ie http://shoppingtvbabes.co.uk/), but why should (example) a 16th century artist with no public profile of any sort, be "more worthy" than this entry just as it is more highbrow that a Quiz show. Wikipedia should be without bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.151.255.91 (talk • contribs)
- Dear me, are we now quoting shoppingtvbabes as a source for an encyclopedia, that's the best reason for a delete I've ever seen. What next she should stay because a picture of her appeared in dogsonheat weekly (not that I'm saying it has, but you get my point!)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.