- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Alphachimp 04:46, 6 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Not notable. This is a small affiliate group of Exodus International mentioned in one Boston Globe article. I found no other non-trivial references in Google except for some interested parties discussing the Globe article. --Flex 03:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- My bias is that I don't like reparative therapy orgs. However, Wikipedia has no policy (contrary to popular belief) that non-notable articles should be deleted. However, an article should not contain information that cannot be verified in books, trusted websites, the press, or even this org's newsletter. So the question is, is there such verifiable info this org exists? I find it hard to believe there is not. Even a brief mention will show it exists. Whether the rest of the info in the article is verifiable is not an issue here. That info should be removed and the article should remain a stub, but it still has a right to exist as a stub. --Ephilei 03:40, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Re deletion: WP:N says, "Topics in most areas must meet a minimum threshold of notability in order for an article on that topic to remain on Wikipedia." This guideline appears to contradict your assertion regarding popular belief. Re the continued existence of this article: the proposed guideline WP:ORG says, "Individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not notable enough to warrant a separate article unless sufficient notability [n.b., not mere existence] is established through reliable and verifiable sources." --Flex 03:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, WP:V explicity states that the threshold for inclusion is verifiability and not truth (ie verifiability and not existence). --Wafulz 04:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Re deletion: WP:N says, "Topics in most areas must meet a minimum threshold of notability in order for an article on that topic to remain on Wikipedia." This guideline appears to contradict your assertion regarding popular belief. Re the continued existence of this article: the proposed guideline WP:ORG says, "Individual chapters of national and international organizations are usually not notable enough to warrant a separate article unless sufficient notability [n.b., not mere existence] is established through reliable and verifiable sources." --Flex 03:56, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. The term "Alive in Christ" is so common (there are numerous 100-year-old churches named Alive in Christ, for instance) that it's difficult to tell how notable this organization is from Ghits. The article itself does not contain sufficient references to reliable secondary sources to fulfil the requirements of WP:V. --Charlene 04:45, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete With such a generic name, it's next to impossible to get a solid idea from Google about how notable this organization is. As such, we have to rely on the article to prove notability... which it doesn't do. Buh-bye. EVula 05:48, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per Charlene and EVula. ¿ςפקιДИτς! ☺ ☻ 05:58, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Save Verifiable information, some of it added by the editor seeking deletion, is included on the page. The organizaton's name Alive in Christ appears at top, or near to top, on a variety of search engine returns. Multiple use of a smae name is no criteria. Reviwing the edit history of the editor seeking deletion I wonder if the criteria imight be political. CApitol3 12:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- That's not assuming good faith, IMO. I'm simply seeking a vote on the merits: Is this org notable enough for an article of its own? It's true that I improved it as best I could after doing some digging, but in the end, I don't think it qualifies as significantly notable. --Flex 13:33, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not saying it should be deleted because it has a generic name, I'm saying that to try to establish notability via Google is hard because of the name. I got about 23k ghits,[1] but from what I can tell, a lot of them have nothing to do with the subject at hand. Because of this, I have to rely on the article to say how the organization is notable, which it doesn't do. As a result, "Delete" is the only option. EVula 14:16, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Counting Google hits is not research, note. Research is reading what one's Google searches turn up. To that end, try refining your search in various ways, and reading what you find. Uncle G 19:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I did try to qualify my Google search some (specifically: "Alive in Christ"-"church"-"Wikipedia"). Per your suggestion, though, I've refined it even further ("Alive in Christ"-"church"-"Wikipedia"-"book"-"music"-"sticker"-"blog"), and came up with 973 Google hits.[2] While I realize that using Google in and of itself isn't full research, the burden of notability still rests with the article itself; this one happens to not state anything about how the organization is notable, and as a result (coupled with the low Google hits) I don't feel comfortable with voting for anything more than "Delete". EVula 19:27, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Counting Google hits is not research, note. Research is reading what one's Google searches turn up. To that end, try refining your search in various ways, and reading what you find. Uncle G 19:14, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete — per above comments, or perhaps merge some of it to Exodus International. Martinp23 16:50, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per above. --Kf4bdy talk contribs 16:59, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per above. Cbrown1023 21:25, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete it's a generic term anyway. Guy 22:07, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per above. --Bill Clark 23:17, 1 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per all the above. Crumbsucker 23:53, 2 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.