Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ames True Temper

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Ritchie333 ^(talk) ^(cont) 20:14, 28 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ames True Temper

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Not seeing what makes this pass WP:GNG/WP:NCOMPANY. There is some coverage, but mostly in passing/press releases/local (ex. [1]). WP:NOTYELLOWPAGES. On the other hand, it's a company with 200+ year history, and it could be notable - if we can find some decent coverage. My BEFORE failed, not seeing anything in books/scholar that goes beyond 2-3 sentences :( Maybe there is something more in [2] but I can't get full access to this (do note, in either case: "The modern Ames True Temper was formed in 1999 when Ames, founded in 1774, and True Temper, founded in 1809, were combined by their parent at the time, US Industries Inc "). A merger to Griffon_Corporation#The_AMES_Companies could be a valid option here as well. Thoughts? _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 22:29, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Pennsylvania-related deletion discussions. _{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 22:29, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. I think that this is the same "True Temper" that was the brand of tubes for (steel) bicycle frames. Other major brands are Reynolds and Columbus; and googling for the three brands together brings up a lot of talk of True Temper and particularly of its demise. Of course, blog entries, forum chitchat and the like may not be the stuff of WP articles, but it does all suggest that something is there. I'll mention this AfD at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cycling. -- Hoary (talk) 22:50, 5 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Companies-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 07:20, 6 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Missvain (talk) 01:37, 13 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, RL0919 (talk) 01:55, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. Seeing as 2 weeks later, we have failed to turn up any reliable sources, I don't believe the company is notable. Of course, if someone presents new sources, I am willing to reconsider. BenKuykendall (talk) 02:20, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep It's real, an old, longstanding manufacturing firm in need of an editor with the time and access to sources - which are readily visible in searches I just ran. IceFishing (talk) 23:54, 20 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment - This isn’t even the name of the company anymore; “Ames True Temper” became “The AMES Companies, Inc.” in 2014. While it’s WP:PRIMARY and from AMES’ parent company, this source claims that AMES is the third-oldest continually operating company in the United States. If reliable sources confirming that history can be found, I’d imagine that would make it notable. Shelbystripes (talk) 00:48, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- Ames Free Library, the public Library in Easton, Massachusetts provides a detailed company chronology: [3].IceFishing (talk) 10:05, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- New York Times published a fairly detailed corporate history in 1974, headline "Ames Prospers as It Marks 200 Years." IceFishing (talk) 10:32, 21 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - Comment The first reference for the Ames Free Library does not have an attributed author, potentially fails WP:RS. The second reference relies entirely on information provided by connected individuals with no indications of any Independent Content, fails WP:ORGIND. That said, there does appear to be other references, for example there are a number of pages in Logistics Management (starts around page 40) which provides details on the company although I cannot see all of the text. Another book Surviving in Spite of Everything: A Postwar History of the Hardware Industry likewise has a section on this company. Appears to meet notability requirements. HighKing⁺⁺ 18:38, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep There appears to be numerous references that meet the requirements for establishing notability. I've linked to two books above and there's more. HighKing⁺⁺ 18:38, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
- The issue is whether the coverage is about THIS company, or its earlier form. All those mergers and acquisitions make this a rather confusing mess IMHO. --_{Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here} 20:17, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  - The infobox already has a list of predecessor names, article needs an upgrade, which can start by moving this to the current corporate name. There really is no argument for deletion. It's just another article in need of an editor.IceFishing (talk) 21:47, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
We have sources. They're not optimal, but they're not negligible. So either keep, whether under its current title or as "Ames Companies"; or somehow merge it with Ames Manufacturing Company or with Ames Shovel Shop; or merge all three. (If the first among these options, we can probably ignore the "The" and we can certainly ignore the vanity capitalization within "The AMES Companies".) Which among these would be the best choice is something that I leave to editors far more experienced in US corporate histories than I am. -- Hoary (talk) 23:09, 23 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.