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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Arka language

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Salted due to threats of pointy recreation. If notability can ever be established, then it can be unsalted but until then... The Bushranger One ping only 02:48, 28 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Arka language

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Arka language (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • Stats)
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Page does not meet the criteria for a notable article (ie verifiable secondary sources) and reads like an advertisement written by the language's author. Finlay (talk) 02:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

  • Comment: There's already been some page vandalism from what I can only assume are fans of the language, since they're saying things like "it's no use deleting it, cos our master isn't interested in wikipedia thing and we will rewrite the article in the future. you're useless". I would recommend that if this gets deleted, that it get salted just for the threats of re-adding it again and again. Might be worth looking into getting the page protected just to keep the vandalism from continuing.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 05:08, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and salt. I searched for sources and unless there's any in Japanese (since there's a book published in Japanese), then I'm going to say that there's just no reliable sources out there about this language. There's a ton of non-reliable sources that were added by people who are a fan of the language, but popularity does not equal notability. Ultimately this is just something someone made up one day (even though it was back in the 90s) and it has yet to achieve notability per Wikipedia's standards. Due to the removal of the AfD box and the statements of "we'll just re-add it", I recommend salting the article to protect against its creation.Tokyogirl79 (talk) 05:24, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete it looks like an advertisement for the language, rather than an encyclopaedic entry. If this language deserves a page, it should be rewritten from scratch and provide some independent references that shows it's notability. 1700-talet (talk) 07:05, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete and salt All the current content is by one SPA who has been very disruptive, insulting editors and trying to "own" the article, removing any additions by other editors, especially tags, such as the tag for this AFD. However, the question of notability of the Arka Language must be considered separately from the conduct of this editor.
    Several editors, including very experienced editors NawlinWiki and Rich Farmbrough have expressed concerns about notability, and I searched for some before reinstating the notability tag, which was repeatedly removed. Like Tokyogirl79 above, I could not find anything in a reliable source. A basic Google search for "Arka Language" produces 3,550 matches, but (other then Wikipedia and its mirrors) these all appear to be self-published or promotional.
    I tried to explain Wikipedia's requirements to the SPA editor, in both edit summaries and on his user page, inviting them to supply references from independent reliable sources. The first time, the SPA added the initial paragraph containing lots of self-references. I can only assume that, as someone who is so keen to promote this subject, cannot come up with reliable sources to demonstrate notability, there are none.
    Returning to the SPA editor, given the statement "it's no use deleting it, cos our master isn't interested in wikipedia thing and we will rewrite the article in the future" it should also be salted. Arjayay (talk) 08:42, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Language-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:39, 21 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: ARKA HAS ENOUGH NOTABILITY AND IT WAS A FAN WHO WROTE THE ARTICLE. TROLLS FROM ZBB ARE TYRING TO DELETE ARKA'S PAGE. IT'S JUST A HARASSMENT. THEY ARE JUST JEALOUS OF THIS ELABORATE CONLANG, SO DO NOT DELETE IT. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ouehfds (talk • contribs) 02:35, 22 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
What I want to know is... what are "Trolls from ZBB"? Is ZBB one of the Impotent Iconoclasts of Outer Zamboni? 05:09, 23 June 2012 (UTC)
Zompist.com#The Zompist Bulletin Board is my guess. —Tamfang (talk) 22:54, 23 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Arka has enough notability. If you deny it, then you have to prove it before deleting the article. And concerning the "advertising" things, how about Verdurian, Ithkuil and other conlangs? You are going to delete a conlang which was made by an Asian while let other advertising European conlangs without notability remain still. That's not fair. If you delete the article, you have to be fair to delete other unworthy conlang's article. (Unsigned comment by Ouehfds)
No, we don't have to prove it's non-notable; you have to prove it is. See WP:BURDEN. And please spare us the crap about Asian vs. European. See WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS. EEng (talk) 06:38, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete unless more notability is shown: I'm from the ZBB or Zompist Bulletin Board referred to above, and I admit I'm somewhat divided on what to do with this article. It's true there has been a lot of work in this conlang; I've never seen an artlang dictionary with that level of detail (let alone one with as many entries as the author claims, ~14 000, though I can't verify that).

    At the same time, though, I think questioning its notability is justified. Yes, I respect its work, but Wikipedia doesn't hold my own personal opinion in such a high esteem—I don't determine this. It's possible to find third-party sources discussing Verdurian because the West has a growing conlanging community spread on the Internet in the form of forums, mailing lists, web 1.0 personal websites, and the LCS; Ithkuil has even been discussed among some Russian linguists; while there's probably none whatsoever for Arka because Japan doesn't have such a thing or it's very small and in its infancy. It's the eternal question and clash regarding "notability": just how comprehensive of things created and known does Wikipedia want to be? I'd insist that third-party sources need to be found to show there's something produced by a community, even if just in Japan, that shows this conlang is notable (things can only be notable to other people after all!). To this I should add the wording, which reads like an advertisement... if kept it should be changed. Otherwise, it would need to be deleted.--Serafín33 (talk) 22:30, 24 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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