Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bryan Arguez

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. Punkmorten (talk) 19:44, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Bryan Arguez

Fails WP:BIO as he hasn't played in a fully professional league. GauchoDude (talk) 23:42, 29 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Granted, he's borderline WP:BIO, but you have to split hairs to put him on either side of that border. Played a first team professional league game? No, not last year (his rookie season), but yes, he has now competed as a professional for teams in two different fully professional leagues (MLS [1], Bundesliga [2]) in friendly and reserve games. Played on two youth national teams[3]; 1st round draft pick, ~500 google hits[4], over 40 pages link here, headlines articles in the Washington Post[5][6]. Seems odd to AfD a year-old article when he's currently in the news for a $350K transfer to Hertha Berlin [7]. Disclosure: I watched him play for D.C. United and contributed to the article. -- Xsmith (talk) 03:18, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. I just came upon the article today. Obviously I know who he is. Do I agree with the WP:BIO? No, but apparently we have to stick to the guidelines on Wikipedia or it loses credibility. Despite all his accolades, Arguez does not meet these requirements yet. I think he's a talented player with a great future, but playing by the rules he should be deleted until he features for Hertha in a league game. All other players have to stick to this law; a 19 year old player who hasn't featured in a league game in his career should not be the exception. GauchoDude (talk) 03:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
~~Delete~~ Keep Fails WP:BIO as hasn't played in a fully pro league. It's well established that reserve games and friendlies don't count. Recreate when he actually plays for Hertha's first team in a league or cup game. Now he's actually played. This in no way validates the keep !votes before he played though. пﮟოьεԻ 5 7 08:28, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
~~Weak~~ Keep (on condition of sources being added). In theory he doesn't pass the requirements for a football player, but there are plenty of sources out there, after his high profile transfer which if included in the article, would cause the article to pass WP:BIO regardless of his status as a football player. For example USA Today Welt (one of the biggest german newspapers) Sportbild (one of the biggest sporting magazines in germany). That was just on a very brief google search. When I have some time I may include these and others in the article. John Hayes^talk 08:59, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Just to clarify I am refering to the line "A person is presumed to be notable if he or she has been the subject of published secondary source material which is reliable, intellectually independent, and independent of the subject.". John Hayes^talk 09:02, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - as per rationale of Xsmith and John Hayes. Note: I am the article's creator. GiantSnowman (talk) 09:53, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment According to the article, and his DC United profile which is linked, he had played 5 games for the U-20 National team which, being I believe the highest level of youth football in the US (excepting the Olympic team), makes him notable under rules for a football player anyway. I've removed the weak from my comment above John Hayes^talk 10:58, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment Admin notes "Actually, that's a very good point - the USL Premier Development League is the highest level of amateur football in the US. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:27, 30 January 2008 (UTC)" from the very similar ongoing deletion debate for the 2008 MLS SuperDraft picks here. GauchoDude (talk) 18:19, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
  - I probably should have clarified that, the highest level of youth football for the national team. John Hayes^talk 08:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete notability isn't temporary, and he currently fails WP:BIO. He may have a big future in the game, but if his career ended tomorrow, he wouldn't be WP:N. Peanut4 (talk) 14:39, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Now played for Hertha. If people didn't rush in to create articles before they've played we wouldn't have had this problem. Please in future wait till they actually play. Peanut4 (talk) 17:19, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment but as I mentioned above he already passes notability, even if he never plays a game of football, due to his coverage in the media, similar to the way Freddy Adu was notable before he played a game. John Hayes^talk 15:01, 30 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete, the article can easily be recreated when the player makes an appearance for a team in a fully professional league. People should just stop jumping the gun when creating articles and wait until the player has played a competitive match. Robotforaday (talk) 02:24, 31 January 2008 (UTC) Now keep, as he has actually made an appearance. Robotforaday (talk) 18:23, 3 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete does not meet notability criteria for footballers because he has not played in a fully professional league, if he ever does so the article can be restored. King of the North East 20:30, 31 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep has played for various US national teams. м info (talk) 03:41, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment It is well established that unless you make a senior national team appearance which earns you a full international cap, playing for a national team doesn't make you noteworthy. GauchoDude (talk) 03:53, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per no pro appearances, but delete without prejudice of recreation should Arguez meet the criterion in the future. The Rambling Man (talk) 08:26, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep having made a professional appearance today, he makes the notability criteria required. Hoo-Rah. See how easy it is?! The Rambling Man (talk) 17:20, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep for U20 appearances, following recent debate at WP:FOOTY. --Dweller (talk) 10:34, 1 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Now has played in a fully professional league (for Hertha). Jogurney (talk) 17:05, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep after his appearance for Hertha BSC today. - fchd (talk) 17:40, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - easily and noncontroversially meets the WP:Football standards of one appearance. Interesting that it happened in the middle of the debate, but hey, there you go. matt91486 (talk) 18:31, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - yes, interesting and indicative of the project's objective line drawn over notability. No debate, he's played a pro game, job done, article stays. The Rambling Man (talk) 18:33, 2 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.