- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete pending Phaedriel's research. Contact me (or any admin) if you would like the contents of the old article. This deletion should not be subject to CSD G4 in the event that notability can be established. (ESkog)(Talk) 02:39, 20 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Note that Phaedriel has contacted me and has come to the judgment that this musician fails WP:MUSIC at this time. (ESkog)(Talk) 23:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
No vote, procedural nom. This was twice speedy deleted, and tagged for repost again, for which it's ineligible, see WP:CSD. The article is about an independent musician, who may meet WP:MUSIC (his CD's are sold here, e.g.) and/or may be independently notable as a native-american rapper. Or he may be NN. You decide! - CrazyRussian talk/email 20:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete with proviso. Fails WP:BAND CDBaby & MySpace do not constitute a recording career. However, he won a "Nammi" for "Best R&B/Rap/Hip Hop Recording" so if a Nammi is worth anything, then he should stay. Apparently the Nammis are only a podcast, if that helps. --Richhoncho 20:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- IMO, Nammy is worth quite little. What's wrong with CDBaby? - CrazyRussian talk/email 20:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Anybody who mails their CDs to CDBaby can put them up for sale. So anybody who wants to spend up to $1,500 to have a pressing is in business. Of course every gigging act has a pressing these days. I understand that actual sales are very low at CDBaby. --Richhoncho 21:23, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak Keep According to WP:MUSIC, "Has won a major music award, such as a Grammy, Juno or Mercury Music Award." The NAMMY is notable enough to merit a Wikipedia article, also has a Minnesota Tribune blurb on front page and has been covered in another article[1]. But considering the list of people whom have won a NAMMY and it's own notability, it seems this musician is notable, and the article needs to be expanded. Yanksox 21:44, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, my vote hinges on the whether the NAMMY is considered a "major music award." Right now I'm leaning towards delete; the notability of an awards' recipients does not necessarily make it a "major" award. Considering how little has been written in the NAMMY article in the year since it was created, I'm having a hard time seeing how it would be considered a major award. -- H·G (words/works) 23:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The question relies on the defintion of defining on what makes an award a major one. Yanksox 03:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, my vote hinges on the whether the NAMMY is considered a "major music award." Right now I'm leaning towards delete; the notability of an awards' recipients does not necessarily make it a "major" award. Considering how little has been written in the NAMMY article in the year since it was created, I'm having a hard time seeing how it would be considered a major award. -- H·G (words/works) 23:28, 14 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
*I believe He should stay as an article because he is very popular among the native american community and even though he may not be very popular outside that community there are still people who may want to know more about him.--Remember Wounded Knee!!! 04:58, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment for Remember Wounded Knee!!!, then go and work on the article, list references and make it count. At the moment it doesn't even say what award the subject has won! --Richhoncho 12:23, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
*If you care so much about it then why don't you edit it you british @$$HOLE!--Remember Wounded Knee!!! 14:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Please, try to show some civility. Personal attacks hardly help your cause. And, while we're on topic, why aren't you fixing the article instead of slinging mud at a fellow editor? --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 14:38, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
*Because this is america and none of you foreigners are going to tell me what to do, okay FELLOW!--Remember Wounded Knee!!! 14:43, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's time you relax, spend a little while from Wiki, and calm down. Yanksox 14:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I'd just like to note that Wikipedia is not America (whether it be North, South, or the United States of). English-speaking editors from all over the world contribute to en.wikipedia.org. hoopydinkConas tá tú? 20:05, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I think it's time you relax, spend a little while from Wiki, and calm down. Yanksox 14:55, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
*I think its time for you to go back to your own country.--Remember Wounded Knee!!! 16:14, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Careful, now... I think I did warn you once already. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 17:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
*The Wu Tang Clan ain't nuttin' ta f*ck with. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soaring Eagle (talk • contribs) . *If you can have an article on wikipedia about oral sex and a list of sex positions then you should be able to have an article on buggin malone.--Remember Wounded Knee!!! 16:40, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- We regrettably have notability criteria for people, and only a gut-feeling-based notability criteria for sex positions (and, if I may add, obscure and completely unheard of sex-related topics have been deleted). In either case, their relevance is not in question here. If you find such topics inappropriate, please AfD them separately. We're discussing this article here. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 17:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Look, if you people delete this article, Im just going to put it back up so just forget about it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soaring Eagle (talk • contribs) .
- And in that case it will be deleted as a substantially same, previously deleted content; if sufficiently different, it may still meet quick death in another deletion debate. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 17:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Does anyone know how to upload pictures into articles? I tried it and it was too confusing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soaring Eagle (talk • contribs) .
- Please consult the help pages. Deletion debate is regrettably not a good place to find help requests. --wwwwolf (barks/growls) 17:51, 15 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
Al yoo verjinz kneed too get of thee cumputur and gow get layd. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Soaring Eagle (talk • contribs) .
- Delete per the above attack and that the article doesn't even have any sort of links or any internal information to push any sort of notability. A complete failure of WP:MUSIC criteria. Could probably be deleted per {{db-context}}. Ryulong 19:09, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- As much as Soaring Eagle is testing our limits, I don't think that is enough for deletion. Deletion of an article shouldn't be used as somesort of punishment towards a user. I have added the info of the NAMMY, prehaps Soaring Eagle could help add context since s/he knows about the subject. Yanksox 19:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- True, but is are the Native American Music Awards notable for inclusion per WP:MUSIC? They just seem to be an esoteric award for musicians of Native American heritage. Especially when this artist is in the (to the best of my knowledge) small group of Native American hip-hop artists (first ghit is his own webpage, followed by 920 other pages[2]). Ryulong 19:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- For this issue we need clarification of what makes an award "major," In WP:MUSIC, a band is notable if one of it's members is a notable musician by Wikipedia's standards. This award appears to be notable with a notable list, and should be enough to carry this subject. Yanksox 20:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- True, but is are the Native American Music Awards notable for inclusion per WP:MUSIC? They just seem to be an esoteric award for musicians of Native American heritage. Especially when this artist is in the (to the best of my knowledge) small group of Native American hip-hop artists (first ghit is his own webpage, followed by 920 other pages[2]). Ryulong 19:37, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- As much as Soaring Eagle is testing our limits, I don't think that is enough for deletion. Deletion of an article shouldn't be used as somesort of punishment towards a user. I have added the info of the NAMMY, prehaps Soaring Eagle could help add context since s/he knows about the subject. Yanksox 19:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete fails my interpretation of WP:MUSIC and the Nammy's, which doesn't assert the notability of a musician (a very minor and relatively unknown award). Also, I'd like to note that I was the editor that twice put the speedy deletion tag on the article (the full content at the time was "Buggin Malone is a Native American musician" or a similar phrase). hoopydinkConas tá tú? 20:14, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- ...which was basically wrong, though, understandably, it was honored by sysops twice. A phrase of that sort gives enough context to add to the article and an assertion of notability is not difficult to imagine here. As you can see, there's what to talk about, and we should all err on the side of more process, not less, for deletion. - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Clarify and amend: the content the first two times around was "Buggin Malone" and that did qualify for CSD, so that was not wrong. What was wrong was tagging it "repost" the third time around. - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Ah, ok. Thanks for explaining. I wasn't aware that the db-repost tagging was out of process on the third recreation. I apologise and I'll file this away as learning from one's mistakes. hoopydinkConas tá tú? 23:36, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Clarify and amend: the content the first two times around was "Buggin Malone" and that did qualify for CSD, so that was not wrong. What was wrong was tagging it "repost" the third time around. - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:21, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- ...which was basically wrong, though, understandably, it was honored by sysops twice. A phrase of that sort gives enough context to add to the article and an assertion of notability is not difficult to imagine here. As you can see, there's what to talk about, and we should all err on the side of more process, not less, for deletion. - CrazyRussian talk/email 23:18, 16 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
NOTE. This artist apparently has become increasingly popular among several Native American communities, specially the Winnebago and Potawatomi of Wisconsin. I promise, right here and now, that I'll try my very best in the next days to research on the subject and provide every bit of info I can dig, as well as researching on its alleged notability, for which I cannot vouch now. Should this article become deleted in the meantime (I'm going out on vacation for a day or two tomorrow), and if I reach a favorable conclusion re. its notability, I'll contact the involved users and administrators to consider it submitting to Deletion review. In the meantime, on behalf of those Native Americans wikipedians that try and help to improve this project everyday, I wish to tell you that I'm embarrased and saddened by the judgements made by this particular user, which in no way represent the feelings of the vast majority of Native Americans nor those of us involved in Wikipedia. Warm regards to all of you, Phædriel ♥ tell me - 00:03, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Thanks Phædriel ♥ tell me for the apology. It wasn't necessary, all humans have the ability to be offensive from time to time! As for me, if it was the brevity of my comment, which was intended as well meaning, that started this I will apologise for my own actions. --Richhoncho 08:24, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- No comment on the article, but as always, if Phaedriel (or anyone else in good standing) wants an article userified in order to work on it after it's been deleted, with the goal of getting it to a place where it would stand scrutiny, I and many other editors would be happy to undelete and userify it on request. ++Lar: t/c 12:20, 17 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.