Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Chongalicious (2nd nomination)
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Merge and redirect to Chonga is a possibility that could be pursued by normal editing. JohnCD (talk) 17:20, 18 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
AfDs for this article:
- Chongalicious (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Well, notability does not expire, but internet links do, apparently. All but one of the links are dead, and GNews produces nothing. GBooks has one or two mentions, but nothing to write home about. The one live link is this one, which proves that these women apparently sang this song. Is that enough? In my opinion it isn't. Drmies (talk) 04:17, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Two remarks: I just saw the first AfD and I'm not swayed by the arguments (not even mildly). Second, I watched the damn video--somebody owns me a barnstar and a Wikipedia t-shirt. Drmies (talk) 04:18, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I'm gonna give the Wikipedia community the benefit of the doubt and hope that keeping this in 2007 was the starry-eyed optimistic hope that this random youtube video would somehow lead to a music career for those involved. Half a decade later though it's obvious that that didn't happen and frankly isn't going to. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 15:30, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Not sure why GNews produces nothing for you: I get about 30 hits[1] including a May 26, 2008 paywalled Miami Herald article for which the GNews excerpt includes the phrase, "made "chongalicious" a household word", multiple articles in the Miami media, and a February 29, 2009 use in the Village Voice that's not substantial coverage but does suggest that the term spread past Miami. (In any event, it looks like this article should be added to Category:Culture of Miami, Florida.) If we had an article about the broader topic of the chonga I could see an possible argument to merge this there, but since we don't, I don't see any compelling reason to overturn the result of the first AfD. --Arxiloxos (talk) 15:31, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Add note: GScholar turned up a 2009 scholarly piece in the National Women's Studies Association Journal (now called Feminist Formations) entitled "'Miss, you look like a Bratz Doll': on chonga girls and sexual-aesthetic excess" that discusses "Chongalicious" along with several other works. (See [2] for an excerpt.) --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, your Gnews link doesn't produce anything for me. I did get the PDF of the article, which does discuss our subject and could be called meaningful coverage. Speaking as an academic, I think you are right and we need an article on chonga, which Hernandez's essay (she needs a proofreader) could help establish. But this is Wikipedia and everything needs to be included. I might try my hand at Chonga--perhaps you can help, and then maybe we can merge. Does that sound fair? Because I still think that the video is a fly-by-night thing and also, ahem, IDONTLIKEIT! Drmies (talk) 18:40, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I am puzzled about why the GNews search works for me but not for you; maybe someone else will have an idea about that. As for Chonga, it would be highly beneficial to get through the Miami Herald paywall, as well as incorporating information from the detailed Miami New Times article that's cited here; not surprisingly, the scholarly article takes the whole thing rather more seriously than the fun-loving folks quoted in what I can see of those news articles, which may leave something of a POV problem. Anyway, the "Chongalicious" content seems likely to be pretty much the same whether it's here or there, and its edit history has to be preserved, so does that mean we're now effectively in agreement that this AfD should close as a "keep", subject to discussion of a potential merge down the road? --Arxiloxos (talk) 23:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Let's wait a day to see if the Article Deletion Squad comes by and outnumbers you. Well, I can't really withdraw and close this, since we have a keeper. Moreover, I'm not actually convinced that I want to keep this article, even if I think we can keep some (a sliver, really) of its content and keep the redirect. Drmies (talk) 04:03, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I am puzzled about why the GNews search works for me but not for you; maybe someone else will have an idea about that. As for Chonga, it would be highly beneficial to get through the Miami Herald paywall, as well as incorporating information from the detailed Miami New Times article that's cited here; not surprisingly, the scholarly article takes the whole thing rather more seriously than the fun-loving folks quoted in what I can see of those news articles, which may leave something of a POV problem. Anyway, the "Chongalicious" content seems likely to be pretty much the same whether it's here or there, and its edit history has to be preserved, so does that mean we're now effectively in agreement that this AfD should close as a "keep", subject to discussion of a potential merge down the road? --Arxiloxos (talk) 23:16, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- OK, your Gnews link doesn't produce anything for me. I did get the PDF of the article, which does discuss our subject and could be called meaningful coverage. Speaking as an academic, I think you are right and we need an article on chonga, which Hernandez's essay (she needs a proofreader) could help establish. But this is Wikipedia and everything needs to be included. I might try my hand at Chonga--perhaps you can help, and then maybe we can merge. Does that sound fair? Because I still think that the video is a fly-by-night thing and also, ahem, IDONTLIKEIT! Drmies (talk) 18:40, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Add note: GScholar turned up a 2009 scholarly piece in the National Women's Studies Association Journal (now called Feminist Formations) entitled "'Miss, you look like a Bratz Doll': on chonga girls and sexual-aesthetic excess" that discusses "Chongalicious" along with several other works. (See [2] for an excerpt.) --Arxiloxos (talk) 16:28, 1 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 00:21, 2 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep-quite possibly the most non-notable "notable" entry, but the news coverage is clearly significant. Meets WP:GNG. A412 (Talk * C) 02:21, 3 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
- Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Martijn Hoekstra (talk) 12:12, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Merge with Chonga - The only two references I've found are this and this. The first is about the people who wrote the song; the second is about "chonga girls", and only mentions the song briefly in the middle of the article. If there is other substantial coverage of the actual song, I will change my vote; I am yet to see any, not have I seen any provided. ItsZippy (talk • contributions) 15:39, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Upon quick review, appears to meet wp:notability. North8000 (talk) 17:43, 11 February 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.