- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. MBisanz talk 03:21, 21 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Devraha Baba (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Notoriety - Only one reference to Baba in a secondary source, that mention is highly questionable, other "notes" on the page do not reference him directly except to the story that the mud-man was hundreds of years old and other fictional stories. I cleaned up most of the problems a few weeks ago (including the category for his birth in the year 900) and have been waiting to see if anyone found anything of relevance to prove his noteworthiness, this has not happened. Sgerbic (talk) 01:57, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Automated comment: This AfD was not correctly transcluded to the log (step 3). I have transcluded it to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2012 December 13. Snotbot t • c » 02:09, 13 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep: There is a lot on Google Books about the supposed 300-year old guru who died recently[when?] - needs a rewrite with more sources, but apparently quite notable. הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 02:48, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of India-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 02:50, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Hundreds of lunatics live on the banks of Yamuna and Ganga, who claim that they are immortal gods and have lived for hundreds of years. No significant claim for notability. --Anbu121 (talk me) 06:04, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Lunatic though he may be, he is notable one; search Google Books and you will find many independent sources discussing him. הסרפד (Hasirpad) [formerly Ratz...bo] 18:35, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Anbu121 what source says he was a lunatic? Please don't make such unverified claims :)... There are 100s of verifiable citations that cover him. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=viSvx3EjQHw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH7G78UkACI Also he was very noteable in India. Google Books return 124 results, Google Web Results About 37,600 results, Google Video has About 31,900 results and some are his direct interviews... people from India and abroad make a point to visit and interview him. All these make him notable. Finally please jump to 20:30 to see the crowd http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUoq-lYOWXQ ... Such huge crowd don't come to see unnotable people when they are alive. And after he died just see the crowd that come to see him for the last time http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7grzKLWgkpE please jump to 1:33:17 to see who all visited his death. Atal Bihari Vajpayee (former Prime Minister of India) can be seen among the crowd who had come to see him for the last time. I am sure everyone should realise how important Devraha Baba is. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 13:17, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- That's my personal opinion. I don't need any verification to have a opinion that people who claim to have lived for 500 years are lunatics. So how do you describe him? "He lives in hut in the bank of Yamuna and claims to have lived for hundreds of years" - What is so notable in this to have a wikipedia article? --Anbu121 (talk me) 13:25, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "That's my personal opinion." ... please see wikipedia:or. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 13:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia:OR applies only to article pages, not AFD pages. I have put forward my opinion only in this AFD page, not the article. --Anbu121 (talk me) 13:46, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- What is your justification calling "Devraha Baba" lunatic? Have you seen his medical certificate or you just go about calling people lunatic just because its your "personal opinion"? I don't see any further reason to further debate his lunatic status unless you have something rational. I never knew people living in huts were to be called lunatics, or why people living 100s of years were to be called lunatics?Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Dear Editors please do consider the validity of Anbu121's arguments towards the deletion decision. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 15:49, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- My argument for deletion is that the article doesn't make any significant claim that makes the person notable. Your claim of "So much crowd comes to see him" is not a valid argument for notability. --Anbu121 (talk me) 16:22, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "So much crowd comes to see him" is not a valid argument for notability. what is the basis for this argument, or that too is your "personal opinion"? Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, you have ignored the presence of former prime minister of India in the crowd. Did you read my remark above "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7grzKLWgkpE please jump to 1:33:17 to see who all visited his death. Atal Bihari Vajpayee (former Prime Minister of India) can be seen among the crowd" Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 16:46, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Sigh! I am sorry, Prime minister came to visit him is not a significant claim for notability. --Anbu121 (talk me) 17:03, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- What is your definition of notable? Oxford says "worthy of attention" Oxford Dictionaries. April 2010. Oxford University Press. http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/notable?q=notable (accessed December 15, 2012). If former prime minister of India will visit you, will people gossip about that and see you "worthy of attention"? So does that add to your notability or does it not? Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 17:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Also, you have ignored the presence of former prime minister of India in the crowd. Did you read my remark above "http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7grzKLWgkpE please jump to 1:33:17 to see who all visited his death. Atal Bihari Vajpayee (former Prime Minister of India) can be seen among the crowd" Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 16:46, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- I am sorry, but again, "People gossip about him" is not a claim for notability. --Anbu121 (talk me) 17:33, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "So much crowd comes to see him" is not a valid argument for notability. what is the basis for this argument, or that too is your "personal opinion"? Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 16:42, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- No point arguing further, since you are someone who cites "That's my personal opinion." for your lunatic definition with no rational backing. Also those are not the only arguments in the above para from where you are picking up sentences and arguing. I will be only replying if your further remarks make common sense. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 17:41, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- My argument for deletion is that the article doesn't make any significant claim that makes the person notable. Your claim of "So much crowd comes to see him" is not a valid argument for notability. --Anbu121 (talk me) 16:22, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Even I am tired of explaining to you. Please read Wikipedia:Notability and Wikipedia:Notability (people). Lets wait for the opinion of some one else. --Anbu121 (talk me) 17:57, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Dear Editors please do consider the validity of Anbu121's arguments towards the deletion decision. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 15:49, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Lets wait for others to comment. Also I will work on the article and add as many verified points as I can. Hope the article stays. Since I just happen to see this article, please give me time to research and add verified material. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 08:44, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- What is your justification calling "Devraha Baba" lunatic? Have you seen his medical certificate or you just go about calling people lunatic just because its your "personal opinion"? I don't see any further reason to further debate his lunatic status unless you have something rational. I never knew people living in huts were to be called lunatics, or why people living 100s of years were to be called lunatics?Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 16:20, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Wikipedia:OR applies only to article pages, not AFD pages. I have put forward my opinion only in this AFD page, not the article. --Anbu121 (talk me) 13:46, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- "That's my personal opinion." ... please see wikipedia:or. Ganesh J. Acharya (talk) 13:37, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- That's my personal opinion. I don't need any verification to have a opinion that people who claim to have lived for 500 years are lunatics. So how do you describe him? "He lives in hut in the bank of Yamuna and claims to have lived for hundreds of years" - What is so notable in this to have a wikipedia article? --Anbu121 (talk me) 13:25, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 13:56, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Hinduism-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 13:56, 15 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- keep Lots of reliable sources in English, including the Times of India and The Indian Express, probably many more in Indian languages. The Steve 23:18, 16 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
NeutralI think that there probably is enough notability from reliable sources to construct an article - but it would bear only a very faint resemblance to any of the historical versions of this article. The subject was fairly clearly highly visible politically in at least the late 1980s (and possibly for a decade or two before that), effectively as a celebrated religious figure who was willing to grant photo-opportunities to a wide variety of politicians, from Rajiv Gandhi to the VHP. And what seems to have originally distinguished the longevity claims for the subject from those for dozens of other figures was precisely this visibility, though the claims seem to have ballooned in the last few decades. But any notability would essentially be as a late 20th century Indian religious celebrity, with the asserted longevity claims a secondary matter. PWilkinson (talk) 00:11, 17 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep per WP:HEY, following work by Rayabhari and others. PWilkinson (talk) 14:30, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Person is notable and reliable sources in English are available. Article needs better presentation. Rayabhari (talk) 17:18, 18 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Clearly notable with articles in Times of India, The Hindu, Philadelphia Inquirer, Indian Express, etc... [1][2][3][4]. The article is in desperate need of some good copyediting tho... Dreadstar ☥ 22:50, 19 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.