Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dibble Dabble (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:33, 9 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Dibble Dabble (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)

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Appears to be part hoax, part non-notable game. Unreferenced, except for a single YouTube video with no clear description or comments and categorized as "comedy". Full of silly claims about being played by famous historical figures like "Dusty Baker, President Gerald Ford and Reese Witherspoon". The line "The pool of Jamie Guido in East Brunswick, New Jersey is widely thought to be the origin of this game" makes it sound like something made up one day. First nom was speedy closed for procedural reasons. Dcoetzee 15:57, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Update: Searching the web I did find at least one source for this game, although it might be part of a grander hoax. See [1]. Dcoetzee 16:06, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment That does not appear to be a reliable source, and appears to be on a site where people place random things. Also beware of websites which just echo back scraped Wikipedia content. It is surprising there are few Google Book results listing and describing this and other swimming pool games. I'm surprised there is no article on Diving games. An obvious game of "diving for things in the water" in general should have a place in such an article, given that at least one reference such as [2] is used for validation. This unreferenced material does not qualify for a standalone article, and is just a long "How-to." Edison (talk) 16:20, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  Comment This is definitely not a hoax and no different than most of the other games in Category:Swimming pool games. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jlward4th (talk • contribs) 18:37, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  Hi Jlward4th, as the article author I hope you can give some insight into where you learned about this game, and a published source where we can find a more comprehensive description of it. It doesn't have to be online but we do need more sources if there's going to be any chance of keeping it. Dcoetzee 20:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Fails notability and verifiability due to the lack of reliable sources. Wikipedia is not the place to publicize games someone made up which have not gained notice in reliable sources. Edison (talk) 16:10, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Given that this thing has been on our database since December 2007, any sources which are used to supply notability must either a) be really major, or b) pre-date December 2007. I'll accept that people have played this game in a swimming pool, but ffs read our notability policy. DS (talk) 16:13, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Strong Delete. Maybe it is a hoax, maybe it isn't. But this so called game is not found in any more than one source, and there is absolutely no assertion of notability that can be believed. Robert Skyhawk ^{(T C)} 16:17, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete as non-notable and non-verifiable. Sergeant Cribb (talk) 17:08, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete, and create List of water games article Weak keep or merge - There is a water game as described in the article, but it goes by a variety of names. I've played it myself. but it was called "tee". There is a reference to it as "dibble dabble" in a 1993 book, here: [3] , Growing Up Latino, by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt, 1993, p 92. Im not saying it necessarily meets WP notability guidelines, but it is a fact that such a game exists, and the phrase "dibble dabble" is one of the names of the game. Does it meet WP notability? Probably not. Is the article as written now good? No, it appears to have a lot of made-up material. But the game does exist. I have no objection to deleting the article, but shouldn't the existence of the game be mentioned in some WP article? --Noleander (talk) 22:43, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I dont see an article named water games or swimming pool games into which it can be merged ... I guess I'd lean towards keeping a tiny stub article or creating a WP:List article List of water games that names the game and gives a one-sentence definition of it. --Noleander (talk) 22:46, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

... and for reference, here are some other WP articles on water games:

• Chicken fight
• Fish out of Water (game)
• Gator (game)
• Marco Polo (game)
• Sharks and Minnows

....... --Noleander (talk) 22:51, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Here is a dictionary that mentions the phrase "dibble dabble" as related to throwing things into water: [4] from On the formation of English words by means of ablaut: a grammatical essay, by Karl Warnke, Publisher Max Niemeyer, 1878 ... although it does not discuss the game, it does discuss the phrase. --Noleander (talk) 22:57, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, I dont see any reference to this game in any book that is about kids games, so that would argue against a dedicated article. --Noleander (talk) 23:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See also the List of traditional children's games, which seems to be limited to "on land" games, to the exclusion of water games. (I cannot believe I'm spending this much time on an obscure game article :-) --Noleander (talk) 23:13, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

See also the List of rural sports and games, a list of obscure games played in UK by kids. That looks like a good model for a water-game list: a concise list with 2 or 3 sentences defining each game (or link to the article, if there is one). --Noleander (talk) 23:22, 1 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I encourage the creation of a list of water games article, but at least one reliable source for each should be required, with an inline ref, to head off things made up in school one day from being added. "Diving to retrieve" games in general have at least the one book I cited above. Edison (talk) 01:20, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

So is that a keep or delete? Sergeant Cribb (talk) 10:13, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

If you are asking me (Noleander) that is Delete, and create new List article. I just created the new list article, and if anyone has any sources to contribute, that would help. --Noleander (talk) 13:02, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Games-related deletion discussions. — • Gene93k (talk) 16:57, 2 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.