- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. MBisanz talk 03:46, 22 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Fall of Efrafa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
Non notable band. Fails WP:MUSIC, WP:RS, and WP:N. No notable label. No big tours. The article is full of OR. The genre's are even questionable. Delete Undead Warrior (talk) 07:12, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Music-related deletion discussions. -- Undead Warrior (talk) 07:15, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Labels aren't notable, fails WP:MUSIC guidelines. The listed interviews aren't independent sources (one of them specifically state that they encourage bands to request reviews). - Mgm|(talk) 08:58, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Pains me to say it, as the band sounds really interesting, but no, not notable; I'd tidied the article up but couldn't find any reliable sources for it. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 09:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- I do not think that the reasons for deleting my entry are substantial enough. The entry is well written, points to references of a band with a large underground fanbase, with a notable and interesting concept. I do not think that just because this band is not known to you as individuals that this warrants deletion. The whole entire point of wikipedia is to learn, and the simple fact is that if this page gets deleted,someone else will put it back up. This band have completed noteworthy tours, two successful albums and have a very interesting message to forward. please do not delete this page simply because you have the power to do so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Grilledvegetables (talk • contribs) 14:26, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment I don't think anyone above has suggested the article is deleted simply because they have not heard of the band; the issue revolves around notability as established through reliable sources. These sources have not (yet) been provided, possibly because they do not exist. Wikipedia, as an encyclopedia, is obviously a repository of information, but its purpose does not include free advertising for any old band that fancies having a page on here. Finally, your suggestion that someone would just put the page back up is on shakey ground; replaced content would be speedily deleted and eventually the page would be salted to prevent its re-creation until the band does something of note. With that, I am going to order some Fall of Efrafa CDs :) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:44, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment i am not in any way associated with the band, and i cannot see how you could see wikipedia as free advertising for a band! its an online encyclopedia. Im angry because i wrote a lot of this article because i felt that they deserved a decent online description. A lot was borrowed from the bands website and from an interview i did with them. I noticed some of the reasons why this was not worthy of an entry "No notable labels or tours" come on - that really is BS. DIY bands do not involve themselves with major labels or major tours. They have completed two euro tours and touring america next year. If you're truly a fan of independent music, you would KNOW how much work goes into touring, and releasing records. To say none of that is notable is a huge disrespect to bands, and DIY music. I have noticed so many bands on this site that have no notable reason for having a page, yet do have a page. I feel that this deletion has more to do with deletionists on a power trip, who don't like or know a band and therefor delete pages that don't fall into their field of what is deemed worthy. This undeadwarrior guy, using his wiki project on black metal as a reason for deleting fall efrafa- congratulations, you know a lot about black metal, but do you know anything about fall of efrafa, who take influence from ambient folk black metal? does this mean youll delete wolves in the throne room, velnias and agalloch's pages next? Its a shame, because i wished to contribute other bands and items to wiki, and now feel that there really isn't any point.
- Comment I think it's a real shame you feel that way, as we always need new editors for Wikipedia. However, there's a few things you need to bear in mind; firstly, please read WP:MUSIC. If a band doesn't pass those (pretty lenient) conditions, then they shouldn't have an article on Wikipedia. If a band refuses to do major interviews, sign to a notable label, do touring that is covered significantly by reliable sources, they are non-notable by choice and have no place here. Regarding your specific reference to the nominator, tread carefully and read WP:CIVIL. Finally, it seems unlikely that the bands you mention will get deleted given that they pass WP:MUSIC; Fall of Efrafa, at present and without further sourcing, do not. It's nothing to do with not liking them... as I stated above, they sound really interesting and I have just ordered both of their albums. They are simply not notable by Wikipedia standards. Blackmetalbaz (talk) 13:48, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment i am not in any way associated with the band, and i cannot see how you could see wikipedia as free advertising for a band! its an online encyclopedia. Im angry because i wrote a lot of this article because i felt that they deserved a decent online description. A lot was borrowed from the bands website and from an interview i did with them. I noticed some of the reasons why this was not worthy of an entry "No notable labels or tours" come on - that really is BS. DIY bands do not involve themselves with major labels or major tours. They have completed two euro tours and touring america next year. If you're truly a fan of independent music, you would KNOW how much work goes into touring, and releasing records. To say none of that is notable is a huge disrespect to bands, and DIY music. I have noticed so many bands on this site that have no notable reason for having a page, yet do have a page. I feel that this deletion has more to do with deletionists on a power trip, who don't like or know a band and therefor delete pages that don't fall into their field of what is deemed worthy. This undeadwarrior guy, using his wiki project on black metal as a reason for deleting fall efrafa- congratulations, you know a lot about black metal, but do you know anything about fall of efrafa, who take influence from ambient folk black metal? does this mean youll delete wolves in the throne room, velnias and agalloch's pages next? Its a shame, because i wished to contribute other bands and items to wiki, and now feel that there really isn't any point.
- Comment I don't think anyone above has suggested the article is deleted simply because they have not heard of the band; the issue revolves around notability as established through reliable sources. These sources have not (yet) been provided, possibly because they do not exist. Wikipedia, as an encyclopedia, is obviously a repository of information, but its purpose does not include free advertising for any old band that fancies having a page on here. Finally, your suggestion that someone would just put the page back up is on shakey ground; replaced content would be speedily deleted and eventually the page would be salted to prevent its re-creation until the band does something of note. With that, I am going to order some Fall of Efrafa CDs :) Blackmetalbaz (talk) 14:44, 17 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. -- Raven1977 (talk) 19:25, 18 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete--I agree with Warrior and Baz. (And it is a WHOLE lot of words in that article.) When notability is not only achieved but also established (Grilledvegetables, that's the point of an encyclopedia--the dispersal of accepted and verifiable knowledge), then this article may return. Baz, I didn't see any tunes on the band's Myspace--burn me a copy when you get those CDs in, will you? ;) Drmies (talk) 15:38, 21 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.