Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ferchess mac Commán

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was redirect‎ to Mac Con#Death. Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 07:36, 18 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Ferchess mac Commán

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Ferchess mac Commán (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)

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Unverifiable. According to this article,

• The Annals of Inisfallen (AI841.1) state: "Ferchess mac Commán, fer léigind i nDruimm Indich, mortuus est."

The actual Annals state[1]:

• AI841.1

Bissextile. Kl. Death of Domnall son of Cathal, king of Uí Echach.

I haven't found Ferchess in the 830s, 840s or 850s annals.

There also is no trace of him in Google Books[2] and in general sources the name only appears in Wikipedia (inserted by same editor) and in one website [3] from the claimed current Clan Commane, an article created by the same editor and now at AfD as well...

Anyway, unverifiable, delete. Fram (talk) 08:11, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Speculation. The Banner talk 09:51, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: People, History, and Ireland. Shellwood (talk) 10:35, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete. Or redirect to Mac Con#Death. WP:SIGCOV is not met. From what I can tell, this legendary figure (a person who may or may not have existed and appears only in folklore) seems to be notable only for reputedly killing the (also legendary) king Lugaid Mac Con (Mac Con). The only verifiable sources in the article (this thesis from QUB (bottom of p.284) and this reprint from UCD (p.344) both perhaps based on the Book of Leinster) afford barely a paragraph each to the subject. In each case only discussing the subject in passing (as part of the story in which Ferchess uses an (enchanted?) spear to kill Mac Con). Other than as a form of WP:CHATBOT hallucination, I also can't account for the claimed (but seemingly inaccurate) mention of the Annals of Innisfallen. Per Talk:Ferchess mac Commán. Even if there was a verifiable mention in those annals, a single mention (in the context of a "story" largely about a different subject) likely wouldn't amount to WP:SIGCOV. As it stands, either this should be deleted. Or the small bit of text about him supposedly killing Mac Con be covered in that article. With, at most, a redirect left behind.

TLDR: Subject is a character in folkloric story - notable only for one thing in that story. Delete. Or redirect to article covering that story... Guliolopez (talk) 10:49, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

KEEP :Please see quoted sources on the page https://www.ucd.ie/tl/trans/md.pmla.60.001.t.text.html and https://pureadmin.qub.ac.uk/ws/portalfiles/portal/220068381/Leadership_and_virtue.pdfSearch on the page for "Rapids" which shows the "From that the Rapids of Ferchis are so called"

If you check the page for Mac Con it also references Ferches mac Commáin with further reference citations.

^[1][2][3]

It quite clearly says in the Annals of the Four Masters M186-225 :

After Lughaidh, i.e. Maccon, son of Macniadh, had been thirty years in the sovereignty of Ireland, he fell by the hand of Feircis, son of Coman Eces, after he had been expelled from Teamhair Tara by Cormac, the grandson of Conn.

Therefore, if multiple sources are corroborating - especially in the annals, how is it speculation?

Fram, the reason you are probably not finding anything in google books is the variations of spellings. Kellycrak88 (talk) 11:39, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

also Mac means son or descendant of hence there are variations and spellings across sources Ferchess m. Commán / Ferchess mac Commán / Feircis, son of Coman and most likely many others Kellycrak88 (talk) 11:48, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

So which source actually uses the spelling "Ferchess mac Commán"? And which sources link the person you claim is mentioned in the Annals of Inisfallen and Annals of Ulster in 9th century entries, with the 3rd century one? Or is that, er, speculation on your part? "The site of the king’s death is commemorated in toponymy as the "Rapids of Ferchess" (Eas Ferchessa)". No, you have one 9th c. source calling it the "Rapids of Ferchis" ("Eas Ferchis" in original) there is no evidence of either "Rapids of Ferchess" not "Eas Ferchessa", nor is there any evidence that this name was used at any later time, so it is wrong to state that this "is commemorated". It was pointed out to you in May that this page had lots of issues, you then claimed that you would improve it, but you posted it anyway. Like Guliolopez says, even if this was at the right title, a redirect to the Mac Con page would be sufficient. As there is no evidence that the actual title here has been used anywhere, not even a redirect is needed. Fram (talk) 11:51, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

https://celt.ucc.ie/published/T100054/text052.html new source he is referred to here as Feircheas son of Coman but same story same person and Ferchis or Ferches in other texts

as you look more into there are many variations of spelling Kellycrak88 (talk) 12:10, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, or redirect to Mac Con#Death, per Guliolopez. No WP:SIGCOV and not WP:NOTABLE. No reason why it shouldn't be covered adequately in Mac Con#Death. Does not warrant or need a standalone article, and sorry to go back to this, but really, I think a standalone Wordpress site may suit the author's singular focus better than trying to insert these Ó Commáin-related articles all over Wikipedia. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 12:05, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  If you want to redirect to it to Mac Con#Death then that could be a solution.

  However, the page has now been refreshed with 5 source citations, including in the Annals which his mention there would certainly make him a very important person recorded in Irish history and worthy of encyclopaedic entry. Kellycrak88 (talk) 12:25, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  All of the sources (all folkloric) deal with the same event. The death of Mac Con. Even if the subject was established to be a real/historic figure, if only known for the death of another person, then WP:PERPETRATOR would apply. The sources do not establish that the subject is "a very important person recorded in Irish history and worthy of encyclopaedic entry". If there are other sources that do (which cover the subject's life/activities and not just one event) then please do add them. Guliolopez (talk) 13:32, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Being mentioned in the Irish Annals certainly does indicate an individual’s historical significance. Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:09, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  Not really. Being mentioned in dispatches is all it is. "You! Go kill that guy!" Minion kills guy. End of. Bastun^{Ėġáḍβáś₮ŭŃ!} 16:21, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

  not the same thing at all Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:39, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as per WP:NRSNVNA. Discussion above clearly indicates that there is an absence of enduring, reliable sources that can verify the individual. Nayyn (talk) 15:29, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

I do hope that comments above are not influenced by previous disagreements unrelated to the content of this article. Your comment appears to overlook the five sources now on the page, none of which you have addressed specifically. The claim that there is an “absence” of reliable sources is not supported. I would ask participants to evaluate the article on its merits and sources, not on any perceived history with me as an editor. Kellycrak88 (talk) 16:18, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete or redirect to Mac Con#Death. Article seems built on one (?) mention in a source, and is then padded by saying that same thing three different ways. Absolutely does not need its own article. — Arcaist ^{(contr—talk)} 20:50, 11 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete - even assuming good faith, the person was never notable and is not really verifiable. Bearian (talk) 04:19, 14 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete. The creator has been blocked for copyright violations and this article is a presumptive copyvio. MER-C 16:50, 17 August 2025 (UTC)[reply]

References

1. R. A. Stewart Macalister (ed. & trans.), Lebor Gabála Érenn: The Book of the Taking of Ireland Part V, Irish Texts Society, 1956, p. 337
2. Geoffrey Keating, Foras Feasa ar Éirinn 1.41-42
3. Myles Dillon (ed. and trans.), "The Death of Mac Con", Publications of the Modern Language Association of America 60, 1945, pp. 340-45

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.