- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Beeblebrox (talk) 01:34, 24 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Hiroto Torihata (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
- (Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Unable to find coverage in reliable sources independent of the subject of this unsourced BLP. Attempted to find sources using the Japanese spelling of his name, 鳥畑洋人, and the English translation with any luck. His page from the Japanese Wikipedia is also unsourced. J04n(talk page) 19:31, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Anime and manga-related deletion discussions. --J04n(talk page) 19:31, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Japan-related deletion discussions. —J04n(talk page) 19:31, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. —J04n(talk page) 19:31, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - added Rotten Tomato link and IMDb profile, not the ideal references but it's something. Only can verify some of the minor roles, the other more impressive claims (e.g. Crouching Tiger, West Wing) may need to be removed if we cannot source them Jebus989✰ 20:16, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Deletebarring additional sourcing. IMDB isn't a reliable source, The RT link verifies insufficient claims to demonstrate notability even if we considered it reliable, and a walk through WP:RSN would likely show otherwise. Was unable to find additional sourcing myself, although additional sourcing is always welcome, I don't speak Japanese and it's certainly possible that I've missed something of significance. --joe deckertalk to me 21:35, 9 April 2011 (UTC) (Changed to Neutral per Spin City below) --joe deckertalk to me 00:36, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The IMDb issue has been rehashed hundreds of times (e.g. 1, 2, 3) - the WP:Citing_IMDb proposal effectively failed because of the differing opinions - and to solidly state that it is unreliable in all circumstances is objectionable (though it may have been decided by factions). The Filmographies are generally considered reliable (see linked discussions), and (to me, at least) seem somewhat preferable to citing offline cast lists from DVD inserts (for example), or from directly film credits (where IMDb supposedly source their cast lists) Jebus989✰ 23:38, 9 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- For the specific question of verifiability, I don't see anything wrong with the insert, and in fact, if the web site for the one film that Rotton Tomatoes and our article agree the actor worked (neither Safari nor Chrome can render the text it's putting out correctly for me), I'd be happy enough for that with respect to the question of verifying the information. I am less convinced that there is inherent notability in a voice actor on a single film, however, and additional secondary sources would be required to pass GNG--the encyclopedia entries certainly aren't in-depth coverage. I am retrying searching on the Japanese name, though, perhaps there's still something out there. --joe deckertalk to me 00:07, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, in terms of verifying things, [1]/[2] seems reliable-but-primary verifying a dubbing role in the Japanese adaptation of Spin City. That's at least some, I'd argue cleanly, verifiable fact. Notability is always fussy, I'll cut to neutral based on this alone, and if I see any thing more reliable I'll go keep. --joe deckertalk to me 00:36, 10 April 2011 (UTC) (PS: Was unable to verify the West Wing claim via checking all the listed dub artists on primary characters [3]). --joe deckertalk to me 00:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- This appears to be his agency's profile page for him? I've noticed these are used in most other Japanese Voice actors articles. There's even images (unfortunately non-free). But there is a long list of parts, the machine translation is poor, but I can pick out CSI:New York, Dead Heat and How to Lose a Guy in ten days. I also assume the 'Drama' and 'Stage' headings match those in the article Jebus989✰ 11:00, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Looking at the article history there also appears to be offline coverage in "Nihon Onsei-seisakusha Meikan 2007" (ISBN 978-4-09-526302-1) and see this discussion Jebus989✰ 11:06, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Final note: added several more Japanese references. While the reliability of one or two may be up for limited debate, this is now (relatively) one of the better referenced members of Category:Japanese_voice_actors Jebus989✰ 11:24, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Okay, in terms of verifying things, [1]/[2] seems reliable-but-primary verifying a dubbing role in the Japanese adaptation of Spin City. That's at least some, I'd argue cleanly, verifiable fact. Notability is always fussy, I'll cut to neutral based on this alone, and if I see any thing more reliable I'll go keep. --joe deckertalk to me 00:36, 10 April 2011 (UTC) (PS: Was unable to verify the West Wing claim via checking all the listed dub artists on primary characters [3]). --joe deckertalk to me 00:50, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- For the specific question of verifiability, I don't see anything wrong with the insert, and in fact, if the web site for the one film that Rotton Tomatoes and our article agree the actor worked (neither Safari nor Chrome can render the text it's putting out correctly for me), I'd be happy enough for that with respect to the question of verifying the information. I am less convinced that there is inherent notability in a voice actor on a single film, however, and additional secondary sources would be required to pass GNG--the encyclopedia entries certainly aren't in-depth coverage. I am retrying searching on the Japanese name, though, perhaps there's still something out there. --joe deckertalk to me 00:07, 10 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Ron Ritzman (talk) 01:11, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep WP:NACTOR This person has played a notable role in various notable productions. This includes one of the two main characters in Karas (anime) Dream Focus 04:54, 16 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete Fails WP:NACTOR as the subject clearly did not have "significant roles in multiple notable films, television shows, stage performances, or other productions." (emphases mine) —Farix (t | c) 19:20, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- What about the significant roles subjective in multiple notable films like Armageddon, How to Lose a Guy in 10 Days and Dead Heat as well as working on massively popular television shows like Friends, CSI:NY (all sourced) in addition to the animé mentioned above?
- Compare with some other pages in this category: Tsugumi Higasayama, Saori Gotō, Yuriko Hishimi, Yōko Honda (unreferenced, less notable roles) — I have no vested interest in this article but it seems if were to be deleted, hundreds of the pages in this category would then need to be nominated. Can we honestly say the encyclopaedia would be improved by removing them? Jebus989✰ 20:42, 22 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- A dubbing the voice of another actor is not the same as actually portraying the character first hand, and are definitely not significant roles. —Farix (t | c) 00:58, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Again, 'significant' is a subjective term, there's no definitely about it. Nevertheless, I'll leave this AfD to run its course now Jebus989✰ 09:13, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- A dubbing the voice of another actor is not the same as actually portraying the character first hand, and are definitely not significant roles. —Farix (t | c) 00:58, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- Dubbing is the same as voice acting. It is as notable as regular acting. The emotions the actors have to show in their voices, and the timing, is the same as regular acting, you just don't see their faces. Dream Focus 09:24, 23 April 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.