Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hulk vs. Thing

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. After weighing up the arguments, I think a consensus to delete does exist. Numerically, there are 2 keeps (one being a conditional), 2 deletes (including the nominator), and two on-the-fences. However, the one unconditional keep used notability as the main basis of the argument, which was not the main concern; the two concerns were WP:SYN and WP:OR. The deletes gave detailed reasons why this article failed to meet those standards. PeterSymonds (talk) 12:01, 21 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Hulk vs. Thing (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)

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Amounts to "The characters have fought and Marvel has made it a recurring plot idea." This isn't going to be anything more than a list of comic book issues where the fight stories were printed. J Greb (talk) 05:53, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. —J Greb (talk) 05:53, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• On the fence I dunno, it's a toss up for me. It seems like the page could definitely be improved and sourced better to establish notability. There is already a couple of things in the "other media" section, and (at least) 2 of the fights were ranked (one from Marvel) for a reception section. CTJF83 chat 06:40, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Maybe If someone wanted to learn about the history of the Hulk vs.Thing rivalry this would be the place. Author(s) clearly have a sincere desire to inform us and did a good job of researching and writing the article. I know a lot more about it then I did 10 minutes ago. Steve Dufour (talk) 07:07, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • The problem is that the research right now is WP:OR, and this is not likely to change. And within the primary author's comment below it looks like the expansion would be to make this look like a fight card/stats file with excessive plot summary. - J Greb (talk) 16:37, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep The article can be expanded to include plot summaries of each story and more overall analysis of the Thing/Hulk fights, including how each fighter fares and "which" Hulks the Thing has fought. The Hulk/Thing rivalry is something Marvel has touched upon many times over the characters' history and I believe it is notable enough for an article.--Marcus Brute (talk) 13:22, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • If plot summaries are added for the fights, it makes a lot more sense to has one article providing an overview of the comics (which include a miniseries and original graphic novel) that separate articles for each story.--Marcus Brute (talk) 13:25, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep if the article is about the issue of an same name. Don't keep if the article is an plot summary. What's next Superman vs. Batman. There's just no need to create an article on rivalrys in itself.Jhenderson777 (talk) 21:27, 6 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
  • Which one issue? The article is not so much on the rivalry itself as it is an overview of stories that explore the same theme.--Marcus Brute (talk) 00:22, 8 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do realize that defianetly by just reading the article. The problem is an article about an rivalry is not really encyclopedia worthy. Now if there is an issue called Hulk vs. Think or an issue that mainly focused on it that would have been alright but I am not sure an biography on rivralies in itself qualifies. I do like the article though and I would like it to stay in some kind of way. Perhaps this could be merged somewhere. Jhenderson777 (talk) 19:24, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
      • Articles on those collected editions may be fine such as Hulk vs. The Thing #1 and Hulk and Thing: Hard Knock. That's what I mean about it being an certain issue. Defianetly since they are both redirected here and this could be used as an disambiguation article for them. Jhenderson777 (talk) 19:32, 17 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]
• Delete if this stays as a list of the battles between Hulk and Thing as that is WP:OR and WP:SYNTHESIS. If it is refocused to deal with the storyline "The Hulk vs The Thing" in Fantastic Four #25-26 then I might reconsider - it is that storyline that has received the most attention, but even then 7th greatest Hulk battle and 13th greatest comic battles suggests there are plenty more out there that have received much more critical plaudits and so do we have an article on all of them too? Where do we draw the line? The idea that this might become a precedent for dozens of more similar articles gives me The Fear. This kind of thing is better off on a fan site but I don't see it as being encyclopaedic - perhaps it is better to transwiki this to the Comics and Marvel Comics wikia pages. That said I am open to a more focused, better sourced article because even if I think this kind of article is A Bad Idea it is possible there are exceptions as long as it is focused on the storyline (and is better sourced and possibly award winning, not cropping up part way down a couple of lists). (Emperor (talk) 15:05, 8 March 2010 (UTC))[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, JForget 00:23, 13 March 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.