- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Slight consensus towards deletion, but comments and discussion seems to show that editors were unable to find significant coverage in secondary sources per WP:NOTE. -- Cirt (talk) 00:12, 2 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Infernal Live (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log • AfD statistics)
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Fails WP:MUSIC. Demos are not notable without significant coverage in independent reliable sources. SummerPhD (talk) 00:33, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- keep. the band passes the criteria for bands. qö₮$@37 (talk) 00:39, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Yes, but demos are still generally not notable, even if the band is, per WP:MUSIC. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:19, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- comment - well, if this demo paved the way for the band's success, and therefore notability, i think that's notable enough. qö₮$@37 (talk) 14:16, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Yes, but demos are still generally not notable, even if the band is, per WP:MUSIC. - SummerPhD (talk) 03:19, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Fact of the matter notability is not inherited for demo albums - significant coverage is required to support a separate article on this subject. Rehevkor ✉ 22:04, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, please keep, the demo is one of best. --Eduardofoxx13 (talk) 01:29, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Your opinion is not a criterion for keeping this article. Please see WP:MUSIC - SummerPhD (talk) 03:19, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, everything this band did was notable within the realm of the genre, written about extensively in all publications dealing with extreme metal, including notable genre authors such as Garry Sharpe-Young, Ian Christe, etc.. Their demos received wide acclaim within the metal world during the early 1980s period of 'tape trading'. Lastly, the contents of the demo are being released by Relapse Records within the year, heralded by the label's May 10, 2010 press release. I agree that, if deleted, info should be incorporated into a section of the artist page. Best, A Sniper (talk) 06:22, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - We still don't have substantial coverage in independent reliable sources, which is what we need for the article to be notable under WP:MUSIC. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:45, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- ...and you've not got consensus yet. Please give me a few days to add references to all the demos you're trying to purge. Thanks. Best, A Sniper (talk) 17:26, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - If you have substantial coverage in independent reliable sources, please add it to the article. - SummerPhD (talk) 18:54, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- ...and you've not got consensus yet. Please give me a few days to add references to all the demos you're trying to purge. Thanks. Best, A Sniper (talk) 17:26, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Albums and songs-related deletion discussions. -- • Gene93k (talk) 19:55, 16 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. It's presumed notability is inherited when per WP:MUSIC is most certainly is not. There is little to no coverage from what I can see. Rehevkor ✉ 22:00, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- OK - no consensus to delete so far. However, for those gunning to purge, could you please extend a little courtesy and allow for a short period for me to work on all of these demo pages? There are a few mentions in published works on the subject of heavy metal. Thanks. Best, A Sniper (talk) 23:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- AfD generally lasts for a week. Please also keep in mind AfD is not a vote, the strength of the [not] votes is often taken more into account than the number. In my eyes the significant (the main word here) coverage required to support and article has not been issued, there are claims of notability but no evidence, but a closing admin could well see differently. Rehevkor ✉ 23:26, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- OK - no consensus to delete so far. However, for those gunning to purge, could you please extend a little courtesy and allow for a short period for me to work on all of these demo pages? There are a few mentions in published works on the subject of heavy metal. Thanks. Best, A Sniper (talk) 23:06, 17 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Bradjamesbrown (talk) 04:20, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Has anyone bee able to dig up the sources required to support this article? Rehevkor ✉ 13:01, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I will continue working on it. However, there is still not a consensus to delete. Best, A Sniper (talk) 20:51, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- You seem to be confusing votes with consensus. No evidence of notability has been produced by anyone. Rehevkor ✉ 21:08, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- ...and you're entitled to your opinion. However, there still isn't consensus. Best, A Sniper (talk) 21:22, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - An Afd "is not decided based on headcount, but on the strength of the arguments presented." Wikipedia:Vote#Deletion.2C_moving_and_featuring So far, the argument to delete is as follows: Demos are not notable without substantial coverage in independent reliable sources, this demo does not have such coverage. The counter arguments are: 1) The band is notable (a moot point). 2) This demo is "one of the best" (a moot point). 3) You intend to add sources to prove the demo is notable (this will be persuasive when you add them). If you intend to save the article, rather than wasting time telling us you don't believe there is a consensus, add sources to the article. - SummerPhD (talk) 02:32, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- AfD not being a vote is a fact, not an opinion. If you really want to give a strong rational to keep the article you should to provide evidence of the notability. Rehevkor ✉ 04:04, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- ...and you're entitled to your opinion. However, there still isn't consensus. Best, A Sniper (talk) 21:22, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- You seem to be confusing votes with consensus. No evidence of notability has been produced by anyone. Rehevkor ✉ 21:08, 23 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. Actually, what we have here is an effort to delete the pages of Death 'demos' that are themselves notable - those heavily-traded, independently-released albums, all included on the 2004 CD Zero Tolerance (Hammerheart), and being reissued again by Relapse Records in the upcoming year. The strength of the argument to delete falls on these being merely demos - it fails in that these were more than 'demos'. Best, A Sniper (talk) 15:08, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- A claim of notability is nothing without sources to back it up. That is what we are trying to tell you. Demos are inherently non-notable per WP:MUSIC, significant coverage on the subject is a requirement. Rehevkor ✉ 15:12, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm trying to tell you that these are more than 'demos'. A Sniper (talk) 15:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- But still demos. Notability is not inherited from the parent. End of line. Rehevkor ✉ 15:16, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm trying to tell you that these are more than 'demos'. A Sniper (talk) 15:15, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment - Which tracks are you saying are on Zero Tolerance (album)? The article lists several sources, but not this one? That said, tracks (or the whole album) appearing on that complilation does not make this demo notable. Substantial coverage in independent relaible sources would. This discussion seems to need one of two things: sources for the claimed notability or additional voices. Claims that sources will be added at some point in the future are not the same as sources. Additional voices don't seem to be coming, even with ASniper's request at Talk:Death_metal#Assistance_required. - SummerPhD (talk) 15:32, 24 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- ...and you deletionists still do not have clear consensus to delete ;) A Sniper (talk) 04:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Cut the ad hominem attacks, please. Tim Song (talk) 06:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- ...and you deletionists still do not have clear consensus to delete ;) A Sniper (talk) 04:07, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Tim Song (talk) 06:09, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisting comment: I'm extremely tempted to call this a delete, given the failure of anyone to provide any evidence whatsoever that WP:MUSIC is met; I decided that a relist might be beneficial, however, given the lack of participation. But please bring forward something more than bare assertions. Tim Song (talk) 06:15, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: No one has brought forth significant coverage. Joe Chill (talk) 13:11, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- As I stated recently on a similar AfD page, if any Death tape was to go, this would be the one...it can always be mentioned on the band page. This tape is either always lumped together with other demos, or I have to dig out all my old copies of Metal Forces, etc. I simply don't have the time going this alone. Best, A Sniper (talk) 01:36, 1 June 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - demos aren't generally notable, and couldn't find significatn coverage by reliable source to establish notability.--137.122.49.102 (talk) 14:20, 31 May 2010 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.