Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ivar matlaus

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. No consensus to delete as improved; rename and merge can be discussed separately. Sandstein 05:58, 27 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ivar matlaus

non notable literature café Rettetast (talk) 20:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I only find one source: [1], and can't read it. I've noticed, however, that in past discussions relating to non-english-language topics, people often jump to conclusions about not being able to find sources just because they don't know how to search for them so I will refrain from recommending. I'd say delete, if no substantial sources are found. Presently I see no grounds to keep. Cazort (talk) 21:08, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Its just a trivial mention. "Ta for eksempel Strandveien. Etter å ha passert de karakteristiske veggmaleriene til Ivar Matlaus Bokkafé og reggaebutikken Rotrock, finner du den økologiske bydelskafeen Ramp..." translates to "Take Standveien as an example. After passing the Ivar matlaus characteristic wall paintings and the reggae store Rotrock, you find the ecological café Ramp". Rettetast (talk) 21:16, 12 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - I agree, but I just wanted to make sure no one else came up with other sources. I've seen a number of cases like this where because it's a topic where most of the coverage is likely in another language, it doesn't turn up in searches but people who know what they're doing more than I do are able to find good sources. If no good sources are found, then I say delete.
Delete. OK, it exists - that we can verify. But how is it notable? Eddie.willers (talk) 01:26, 13 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been listed as an Anarchism task force deletion discussion.

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, –Juliancolton | ^Talk 00:14, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Coment—Your observation about understanding how to search in Norwegian is right on target - there are 10 pages of material found with Google-although much of it is low content. By itself this article is probably, at best, marginally encyclopedic. But researching this proved rather interesting. My reading of background material for this article highlighted the need for additon of one article and upgrade of another article which clearly meet wp:notability criteria:
- Ivar Matlaus or Ivar Mortensson-Egnund (1857-1934) was a Norwegian author, journalist, theologian, researcher, translator, writer, philosopher, radical political activist and advocate of nynorsk who, as a penniless youth, was nicknamed by Arne Garborg as "Ivar Matlaus" (Ivar foodless). The Ivar Matlaus bokkafé plays on this.
- The Ivar Matlaus bokkafé is located at UFFA. UFFA, short for "Youth For Free Activity", is a self-managed youth cooperative in Trondheim; similar to Blitz (movement) in Oslo. UFFA sponsors concerts, has served as the genesis for several Wikipedia-listed bands in Trondheim, publishes an anarchist newspaper, fosters anarchistic and other radical organizations, and is the home for a number of Trondheim's eating places including Kafe Knaillhard and the Ivar Matlaus bokkafé. Collectively it is culturally significant; the article at UFFA is in sad need of an upgrade.
Give me a couple of days to translate the no:Ivar Mortensson-Egnund article and to upgrade the UFFA article. Then I'll try to add some context material to put this article into perspective and I can give you an informed opinion whether it is worth keeping or not. Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 03:32, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Here is Norsk Biografisk Leksikons entry. That is probably a good source when translating. Rettetast (talk) 22:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  - Tusen tak. As it turned out, I'd used Østigaard, Arne Dag (2007). "Ivar Mortensson-Egnund". Store norske leksikon (in Norwegian). Oslo: Kunnskapsforlaget. Retrieved 20 May 2009. already when I found your note, but still appreciate your flagging it - you're right, SNL makes a very sound inline reference. Article mostly done now (although I found the Olav Aukrust article could use a lot of work too as I translated the article on Ivar. Alas, too much to do and too little time. Now off to work a bit on UFFA. Skål - Williamborg (Bill) 03:53, 21 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Keep with changes as noted—After working on this for a while, I think the correct solution is:
- Move the current Ivar matlaus article to Ivar Matlaus Bokkafé and retain - I reworded the article to provide a bit of perspective on notability - it's still not hugely notable, but it does speak to an interesting social phenomena and there are other articles of this class. Change the current Ivar matlaus page to a #REDIRECT [[Ivar Mortensson-Egnund]] page since he is Ivar Matlaus. Hа здоровье - Williamborg (Bill) 02:16, 22 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
Good save, but since much of the article describes UFFA, would a merge to UFFA be in order? Punkmorten (talk) 06:14, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That was my first reaction as well - actually started to integrate the cafe-bookstore into the UFFA article. But then, since there is an Ivar Matlaus Bokkafé outside UFFA at Svartlamon, I went to look at that district. Found another article that needs work - there are references, so I've started to improve the Svartlamon article as well as part of this.
And since the bookstore may have started at UFFA but isn't just at UFFA, I asked, are bookstores of this type noteworthy? Turns out they have a fair representation in Wikipedia—which have survived. Examples include: Freedom Shop, Jura Books, Salon Mazal, Centre International de Recherches sur l'Anarchisme (CIRA), Camas Bookstore and Infoshop · Documentations, Informations, Références et Archives, Spartacus Books, Freedom Press, London Action Resource Centre, Bluestockings{ Boxcar Books, Brian MacKenzie Infoshop, Catalyst Infoshop, Civic Media Center, Internationalist Books, Iron Rail Book Collective, Red Emma's Bookstore Coffeehouse, Trumbullplex, Wooden Shoe Books. So it appears that counterculture bookstores or Infoshop, as a category, have been accorded some notability. Hence my recommendation.

Cheers - Williamborg (Bill) 14:59, 23 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.