- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete Jayjg (talk) 01:39, 25 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Joe and Ellen (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Non-notable musical duo with no significant write up in reliable sources. No charted albums. A Google search reveals little outside myspace, facebook, youtube, etc. (though their name provides lots of mentions of other "Joe and Ellen"s). Fails WP:BAND. Astronaut (talk) 08:41, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete - No evidence or assertion of notability outside Tulsa, no claim against any criterion of WP:NMUSIC, and insufficient indpendent reliable sources supporting the article. - DustFormsWords (talk) 08:53, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. —J04n(talk page) 10:57, 18 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
If that's the case, then there are numerous artists on wikipedia who should be deleted. What about the fact that Joe and Ellen appear on a major-label album released by famous drummer Jamie Oldaker, Mad Dogs and Okies, alongside famous names like Eric Clapton, Vince Gill, Peter Frampton, and Willie Nelson?
It's true, Joe and Ellen's career is just taking off, but that doesn't mean I as a fan have no right to make a wikipedia entry for them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Taylor1149 (talk • contribs) 00:25, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - Information about their record label does not appear in the article (that I can see). I would suggest that if you can source that information, you add it to the article, as WP:BAND gives a presumption of notability in favour of artists with two albums released on a major label. - DustFormsWords (talk) 01:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - There you go, information about Joe and Ellen's appearance on the Mad Dogs and Okies album on Concord Records has been added. Joe and Ellen might not be famous yet, but they are highly respected by a circle of musicians of high calibur. Jamie Oldaker's interest in them is considerably noteworthy, seeing how it led to them sharing an appearance on record with Eric Clapton, Willie Nelson, and Peter Frampton, for god's sake. How is that not a serious musical duo? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Taylor1149 (talk • contribs) 04:45, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - Not quite there. First of all, the article doesn't say anything about Mad Dogs & Okies being on Concord (although Google searches suggest that that's not in serious dispute). Secondly, they're a guest artist on that album - it's not their album. Thirdly, WP:BAND requires two albums released on a major record label, and, dependening on whether you count MD&O, they have either one or nil. So they still fail both WP:N and WP:BAND and my vote stays Delete. - DustFormsWords (talk) 05:04, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. "If that's the case, then there are numerous artists on wikipedia who should be deleted." Yes, that's certainly true. But it doesn't mean this one shouldn't be. That's the old WP:OTHERCRAPEXISTS argument and it holds no water on AfD. "Joe and Ellen's career is just taking off, but that doesn't mean I as a fan have no right to make a wikipedia entry for them." It also doesn't mean you should. If they don't pass any of the criteria at WP:BAND then they don't belong here yet, and right now it looks like they don't. No albums on a major label or large independent label, just a guest spot; only local coverage; no tours; not in national rotation; neither was previously in any other notable bands. Sorry, but they're going to have to get better established before they merit an article here. — Gwalla | Talk 19:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Reply - Wikipedia would be honored by Joe and Ellen's presence. Period. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Taylor1149 (talk • contribs) 23:21, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- We would be. Get them to log on and start editing, we'd all be thrilled. The article, on the other hand, has problems. :-) - DustFormsWords (talk) 23:54, 19 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Are you saying they should be editing their own article? I mean, you're joking, right? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.185.102.176 (talk) 00:20, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- No, I'm saying that we'd love to have them as editors in general, in the same way we'd love any editor. But my comment was a smart-aleck response to the facetious comment that we'd be honoured by their presence and you should ignore it just as you'd ignore what it was replying to. Take my apologies for starting an irrelevant tangent. - DustFormsWords (talk) 01:26, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment: And that is WP:ILIKEIT. You may want to read through Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions to familiarize yourself with the sorts of arguments that are routinely rejected out of hand at Articles for Deletion. If you think that Joe and Ellen qualify for an article under Wikipedia's guidelines (see WP:BAND), you should address those guidelines and how the subject meets them, and eschew arguments that amount to special pleading. — Gwalla | Talk 22:48, 20 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: I can't find significant coverage for this band. Joe Chill (talk) 03:27, 22 November 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.