Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Johnny Ca$h

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete All. Please see AfD talk for extended rationale. JERRY ^talk _contribs 20:52, 17 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Johnny Ca$h

Speedied multiple times; deleted at AfD as Johnny Castaneda Jr.. Previous consensus was subject fails WP:MUSIC. Suggest delete and liberal WP:SALT. Jfire (talk) 06:07, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Also listing the following related articles:

// Chris ^{(complaints)•(contribs)} 22:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- the wub "?!" 12:37, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and salt per nom. Fails WP:MUSIC Doc Strange (talk) 14:53, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per nom. What do you mean? Ca$h was a rapper who released albums for a major California label Thizz Entertainment. Also his tragic death made national headlines. If Partners in Kryme can have an article and all they did was released two singles, why can't a rapper how made four albums have an article. He is notable.Same As It Ever Was (talk) 16:19, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Weak keep per results of Google search on "Johnny Ca$h". JJL (talk) 16:21, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep I've following SAIEW's contrib's for some time and he is right Ca$h's death flooded news sites and channels and he was signed to one of the premiere hip hop labels, Thizz.User:Payne2thamaxx (talk) 16:54, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment, I was on newpage patrol and added the reference to this article, I did this to confirm that the subject did exist and was not a hoax. I have no opinion on the notability of the artist and my edit should not be taken as an endorsement of the present text. Tim Vickers (talk) 17:11, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, had multiple releases on a notable label and appears to be the subject of at least a couple reliable sources. Ten Pound Hammer and his otters • ^{(Broken clamshells•Otter chirps)} 18:10, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"Flooded news sites"? "National headlines"? I get a total of three relevant Google news hits, none from national news sources. It states in the article for his album that it is his only album on a label that barely meets WP:MUSIC. I don't see anything else that meets WP:MUSIC (was there other published works from reliable/national sources on his group "The Money Gang"?). I'll change my mind if I see these sources, but so far, all I've found are 3 local/state sources. BTW, to respond to SAIEW, Partners In Kryme have an article because they had a song chart at #13 on the Billboard Hot 100 that was featured in a major Hollywood motion picture, which satisfies WP:MUSIC Doc Strange (talk) 19:25, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete and salt, unless reliable sources are provided. Corvus cornix_talk 23:17, 10 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per Corvus. Tasc0 ^{It's a zero!} 00:11, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Johnny Ca$h was signed to Thizz Entertainment, a major record label and released four albums.00:40, 11 February 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by XMarxThaSpot (talk • contribs)
Keep As stated above, artist was a member of a major label, released several albums, page is referenced, article looks good, page should be kept.ComixFlix (talk) 03:26, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Been alongside Mac Dre, notable. --Flesh-n-Bone 21:27, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment is anyone voting "keep" reading WP:MUSIC? Mac Dre is notable, but this rapper isn't, as notability isn't inherited. If his work with Mac Dre and Thizz (which is just barely notable itself) is his only claims notability, than that really doesn't help per WP:MUSIC? There are still no notable sources to assert notability. Doc Strange (talk) 22:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Yes, Thizz is notable enough for inclusion on WIkipedia. Thizz is not, however, a "major label or one of the more important indie labels" (the WP:MUSIC criterion). Above comments that Thizz is a "major label" or "one of the premiere hip hop labels" are patently untrue. "Moderately successful regional/local label" is closer to the truth. Artist fails WP:MUSIC. Precious Roy (talk) 14:19, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Keep Did some researchon this man and it seems as though Johnny Ca$h may be notable, his friendship and work with Mac Dre, his murder in 2007 and the rappers he has worked with (Mac Mall, Bavgate, Mistah F.A.B.), combined with the fact that he has released four albums for Thizz Entertainment, I belive he is notable enough to have an article, so I believe this article may be kept due it having 8 keeps and 4 deletes thus far. TheNextOne (talk) 22:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Look, the friendship with Mac Dre is not a reason for keep as Notability is not inherited. The murder - like i said before - three Google news articles, all from local news stations, none from national sources. Thizz is not a major label per WP:MUSIC, and it is barely a notable indie label. No one who has voted keep has given any credible sources to back up why he is notable per WP:MUSIC. None, only claims saying the exact same thing. Doc Strange (talk) 15:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. I don't think Thizz meets the WP:MUSIC standard of major indie label. // Chris ^{(complaints)•(contribs)} 22:02, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment Doc Strange, no one is saying the page should be kept just because of his friendship with Mac Dre, he released 4 albums for Thizz Entertainment, one of the biggest labels in the Bay Area, if Ca$h is not notable, then who is?. I also added more refs and external links. and whats the problem wit dchalll, do you even know who Ca$h or Klyde are? Same As It Ever Was (talk) 22:08, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Comment All three articles should be kept in my opinion, SAIEW has provided sources for Johnny Ca$h and as for the Money Gang both Johnny Ca$h and Rydah J. Klyde have articles, so why not have an article for the group? Thizz Entertainment is a major indie label, just think of it, Thizz has been home of such immortal men, Mac Dre, Mac Mall, Mistah F.A.B., Da'unda'dogg, Messy Marv, Keak Da Sneak, Haji Springer, Mac Minister, Mob Figaz, Ca$h, Klyde, Money Gang and the list goes on and yet dchall, Doc Strange and Precious Roy, people who have no idea about hip hop say Thizz is not notable? Come on now, yall shoulve known by now. Eight different users have spoken, they want the article kept, 5 other users have spoken they want the article deleted. 8 to 5 that means the article should be kept, sources have been provided, links have been provided, reasons have been provided, info has been provided, albums have been provided. The people have spoken and damn it we want this article and you gotta give the peeps what they need. On a side note, why does my name keep appearing as Eric Miller?Eric Miller (talk) 23:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

What part of Notability isn't inherited don't you understand. Also "immortals" is opinion. How many albums did this rapper sell in his life time - in fact how many copies did this label's biggest selling release sell? I get 30 Google News hits for the label (and three for "Johnny Ca$h"), but many are local papers or involving Mac Dre (who DOES seem notable, but like I said, Notability isn't inherited). This Johnny Ca$h fellow isn't notable per WP:MUSIC please read that guideline Doc Strange (talk) 19:35, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Dr. Strange, you fool, I never said he inherited notability, you said Thizz is not a notable Record Company and I was proving a point that Thizz has been home to immortal men, immortal men. And Google is a totally different site, that has nothing to do with Johnny Ca$h, only three hits, yeah right. The problem is, Strange, you are not a hip hop fan, a hyphy fan or a Thizz fan, so we really can't your word for it. Claiming Johnny Ca$h is not notable is your opinion, as proven by eight editors feeling that it is notable. Did you see how many friends Ca$h has on MySpace? Ca$h has the support of a nation of thousands. Sources have been provided, Ca$h is beyond a shadow of a doubt, notable.Eric Miller (talk) 20:12, 14 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Did you even look at the Google News hits (obviously Google itself won't be any help due to the country legend taking up most of the results). I'm proving that this rapper isn't notable using WP:MUSIC and WP:NOT, both guidelines on Wikipedia. Saying this rapper is an "immortal" is subjective (it's your opinion whose "immortal" or not). For the record, I am a modest fan of a few rappers - (Aesop Rock and Beastie Boys, namely), but yes, i'm not a fan of hip-hop in general but other genres of music. But saying i'm not a fan doesn't help your case. The simple fact is he's not notable per Wikipedia's guideleines. MySpace friends also do not help in making someone notable on Wikipedia. I also looked him up on All Music Guide. He DOES have an entry, but nothing in it. No biography, no discography, no charts and only one credit in a NN mixtape. Doc Strange (talk) 14:50, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep all. They are notable. The Johnny Ca$h page has also been considerably improved since nomination. --Pwnage8 (talk) 04:12, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete WP:NOT a memorial, also this page shows no evidence that the person has been covered by multiple, reliable sources in a non-trivial way. There's nothing outside of Wikipedia to reference to put anything important in this article, thus it fails notability tests thus should be deleted.--Jayron32.talk.contribs 04:17, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Delete and salt - Fails WP:MUSIC, and no reliable sources listed. Lara❤Love 04:59, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
I've dedicated my time to improving this article as I feel that this article is notable. I don't feel it is a memorial. He is notable having released four albums for Thizz all produced by Mac Dre, who you say is notable. This article looks like it is going to come down to the wire being that there are 9 keeps and about 7 deletes. You wanted refs, I added them, you wanted it improved I improved it. I just feel I've done enough to have it kept. His notability has not been inherited, he earned his notability. And beyond his album and his 3 Money Gang albums, he appeared on 19 other Thizz albumsSame As It Ever Was (talk) 16:37, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Look, you've added some sources, but none from national news sources, all are from local sources, which really don't help. Like i've said again and again, you need to read WP:MUSIC, which is a guideline here on Wikipedia, which this rapper fails to meet Doc Strange (talk) 17:51, 15 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Keep I love Hyphy and I agree with the users who say keep. Johnny Ca$h was the best, I own all of his albums and I too feel he is notable. If you have your doubts just pick up Thizz Nation 11, his work with Thizz Entertainment and Mac Dre is legendary.Wicked Wayz (talk) 05:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

"I like it" is not a good reason to keep Doc Strange (talk) 17:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

We clearly have different views, Strange. True he does have an allmusic page with nothing on it but his album, Thizz Nation 11, does have an entry on AMG. I've read the WP:Music and I just feel he is notable, but you feel he doesnt. the two of us will never agree on this article because we have two different views. We have to just wait to see what the final verdict is.... Same As It Ever Was (talk) 18:53, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, but remember, Vote count is only one of the things a closing admin looks into for the deletion, also the comments left by the editors are also apart of what the final decision is. Usually, an AfD lasts as long as a week before a decision is made. Doc Strange (talk) 21:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.