Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Level bomber

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Keep. There is no consensus on a rename or merge below but those possibilities can be further discussed on the talk page. Eluchil404 (talk) 01:41, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Level bomber (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Delete: Level bomber got a {{unreferenced}} tag in September 2007, without receiving any sources since. Any aircraft with a bomb is a bomber but the word bomber aircraft is reserved for specialized aircraft. Many bombers drop their bombs in level flight so the word 'level' is superfluous as 'space astronauts' or 'Federal President Barack Obama'. This article's minuscule content could easily be inserted in the Bomber article. However there are some errors. --Regards, Necessary Evil (talk) 18:33, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete, I'd actually tag this for SD as nonsense. I don't even see anything there that might be salvageable for the bomber article. §FreeRangeFrog 19:50, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

That would be misuse of the G1 criteria: incoherent nonsense is "haha lol fdgiua" not "A level bomber is a bomber aircraft capable of attacking a ground object with bombs."--Patton^t/c 20:14, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to Carpet bombing, because "'Level bombing" means the same thing as "carpet bombing". The article as it is is completely wrong though.--Patton^t/c 20:14, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Actually Level bombing is not necessarily the same as Carpet bombing - level bombing has often been used against individual precision targets with varying levels of sucess - If this article were to be merged or redirected, perhaps a better target would be Bomber (which also needs a lot of fixing).Nigel Ish (talk) 00:26, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect--this may not be "uhgsildrbn;sddibn," but I see nothing worth merging here. The term exists, as evidenced by Google Books, but that's about it. Drmies (talk) 21:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep after complete rewrite (sorry Drmies!). Wikipedia should have an article on this; it should be the counterpart article to dive bomber. It should have a substantial subsection focusing on World War II and while it should certainly reference carpet bombing, Lancaster bomber, B-17 Flying Fortress, the Dresden firestorm etc., it would also need to mention non-carpet bombing missions such as the Dam Buster Raid, Operation Crossbow, the sinking of the Tirpitz, etc. -- I happen to have good sources on my bookshelves, so I can and will rewrite it.--S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 23:27, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, I am shocked! How could you? Well, alright then--I'll gladly wait and see what you produce, in accordance with WP:IHAVEFAITHINMYFELLOWEDITORS and WP:SHOWME. Drmies (talk) 23:49, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
    • Hahaha!:-) --S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 00:06, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment--I'm putting my work in progress on that on the article's talk page.--S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 23:45, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• The article Bomber#World War II distinguish between dive bomber, light bomber, medium bomber, heavy bomber and torpedo bomber. Perhaps you should use your knowledge to expand these subarticles. --Regards, Necessary Evil (talk) 23:59, 3 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Those need expansion as well, but level bomber should still be an article. By analogy, Wikipedia has (and should have) articles on invertebrate, arachnid, spider and tarantula. The hierarchy here should go bomber, level bomber, heavy bomber and B-17 Flying Fortress.--S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 18:32, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. —Nick-D (talk) 10:12, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Keep The term level bomber is a common one and so the article should be retained as a useful search term. Improvement and rearrangement of the various articles about bombers is not a matter of deletion. Colonel Warden (talk) 10:34, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Delete Keep: Because looking back at the discussion, it's obvious this term means different things to different people, no one has provided a source saying that "level bombing" is the same as "carpet bombing", besides this article is about "level bombers". And last of all I completely agree that the term is superfluous. Ryan4314 (talk) 10:43, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• [1] [2] [3] [4] level bombing is the same as carpet bombing.--Patton^t/c 17:14, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Your very first reference, at the bottom of the first page you link, mentions level bombers being used against ships at sea. Which isn't carpet-bombing.--S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 17:53, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• None of those sources say "Level Bombing" is the same as "Carpet Bombing". Although I will concede that "level bomber" is a now a term, if someone improves the article a bit I'll be more than happy to change my !vote to a keep. Ryan4314 (talk) 18:01, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Comment I've done some further work on the draft article.--S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 18:28, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Note: I moved the draft onto the main page at this point, which substantially changed the content of the article. --S Marshall ^Talk/_Cont 23:47, 4 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Nice job, love the references, although I think you should announce in bold: Article has been rewritten/expanded! Please take a re-read. Plus you could also send Necessary Evil a nice message informing him too. Ryan4314 (talk) 00:25, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Keep, but move to Level bombing (which isn't the same as carpet bombing) I've dug through my references, and haven't been able to find a class of aircraft called 'level bombers'. 'Level bombing' appears to be a WW2-era term and the tactic was used by heavy, medium and light bombers. Nick-D (talk) 01:26, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. Ryan4314 (talk) 02:12, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

• Redirect to whichever seems best target (Bomber/ Level bombing). Even if a real term, a redirect would point interested readers to a more useful and comprehensive article, which is preferable. Merge if the newly added material is useful.Yobmod (talk) 10:24, 5 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep. This is notable and deserves an article. Perhaps we need to add a few articles to the see also section, but otherwise it's fine. Malinaccier (talk) 01:21, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]
• Keep Level bomber is totally different than carpet bombing. There is more than one way to carpet bomb, level bombing just one of those methods. I've heard the term carpet bomb refer to the Russians in Afghanistan, doing wide spread attacks, having a bomb that split into many smaller ones, and wiping out entire areas to get their target. Two different terms, both relevant enough to have their own articles. Dream Focus (talk) 01:38, 9 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.