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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Lex Coleman

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. I find the argument that Lester and Lex Coleman are the same person to be unconvincing at this point, and User:Nrswanson's summary is correct that the provable information we have on this person doesn't establish notability. In addition, although much discussion took place, only User:Petri Krohn seems to be seriously advocating a keep, and given the rebuttals to most of his points from the other participants in this discussion, I see a clear consensus to delete. Lankiveil (speak to me) 07:38, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Lex Coleman

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Lex Coleman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

This article is clearly a hoax. Searches for references verifying the content have yielded nothing. Note: This article is not referring to Lester Coleman (also known as Lex Coleman) who probably is notable but to a fictional person. Nrswanson (talk) 20:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Reply. I absolutely agree that "Lester Coleman" (Lester Coleman the II) is notable and he already has a seperate wikipedia article. This article on "Lex Coleman" (Lester Coleman the III) however is completely a hoax. None of the facts in the article are accurate. The books he apparently wrote don't exist, nor is he a recipient of any of the supposed awards (Emmy Award etc.), and he never worked for the Boy Scouts. Be intelligent and do a little fact checking before you vote keep. Doing a quick google search doesn't cut it when you have a clever hoax.Nrswanson (talk) 21:08, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment Hmmm .. semi-interesting enigma we have here. We have the Lex Coleman article being discussed here, a Lester Coleman article which also contains some dubious claims, a Lester K. Coleman redirect (which goes to the "Lester" article), and an apparently very real Lester K. Coleman II (a.k.a. Lex Coleman) who was a TV/Radio talking head - but mysteriously disappeared. Both Lester and/or Lex articles appear to be talking about "reporters", career(s) that revolve around terrorism and mystery. I'll be interested in following the developments of these articles - even if the only "Coleman" I am currently familiar with is the one that autographed my portable stove. ;) <* Changed my vote from "Keep" to "Merge" by the way *> Thank you to editor Nrswanson by the way for bringing this to my attention - good catch! — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 22:01, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Reply.How many times do I have to state this. The article up for deletion claims that they are two different people and the content for both articles is different. Further all of the content in the Lex Coleman is false, whereas the Lester Coleman article is basically ok. A merger is a bad idea because none of the content in the Lex Coleman article is accurate.Nrswanson (talk) 02:15, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I am implying no such thing. This article is about a fake person who is completely different than Lester Coleman (as stated by the Lex Coleman article). I make no assertions about ghost writers. I am only interested in verifiable facts. The fact of the matter is that this article is a hoax. Searches of Time Magazine's database reveal no Lester Coleman or Lex Coleman as an author in 1997. Nor has anyone under either name ever won an Emmy Award or worked for the Boy Scouts of America. No one has yet to produce a single source which verifies the content in this article. Even if this person does exist, which I doubt, no evidence has been produced that asserts the subject's notability.Nrswanson (talk) 03:15, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • I found a reference stating that he was the chairperson for the Faculty of Arts & Humanities of the American University of Technology in 2007. I also found four sites or pages where he advertises his services with biographic information:
  1. Lex Talk America
  2. Lex Coleman at Voice123 voice over marketplace
  3. Lex Coleman at MySpace
  4. Personal communications & conflict coaching at Skype
  • Petri I see no source that you have found which confirms or even hints that both people are same person. Further, that source for his death is a speculative blog post. Not exactly a reliable source. (Not that it matters. He's not notable whether he's alive or dead.) You have yet to find one independent reliable source verifying any of the content in this article.Nrswanson (talk) 04:57, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. User:Petri Krohn has now found this source [1] which seems to establish that the subject is the Chairperson, for the Faculty of Arts & Humanities at American University of Technology. However, that university is a very minor academic institution so I don't think it confers any notability to Coleman. (Fails WP:ACADEMIC) It does, however, establish that he is indeed a different person from Lester Coleman. However, the rest of the article's content still remains unverified and with the lack of independent verifiable sources the subject stills fails WP:Notability.Broadweighbabe (talk) 04:37, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per Broadweighbabe and Nrswanson. Without any sources verifying the content or establishing any of the guidelines at WP:Notability this article should be axed.Inmysolitude (talk) 07:03, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I am the person who tagged the Lex Coleman article with the merger tag. I am identified as User:Anne Teedham who has been blocked indefinitely, and will no longer be a participant in anything Wikipedia. However, before my departure, my employer has requested that I "clean up" this particular loose-end because User:Petri Krohn asked me why I think the two people are the same. My reasoning goes like this: Both articles (before the above respondents began to make alterations) claimed that Lex and Lester were twin brothers yet both brothers attempted to secure authorship of the controversial book Trail of the Octopus. In addition, both brothers wanted to possess the accolades of their achievements with respect to: writing, to the Middle East, and to a variety of common interests. When I began looking closer, I found their picture; yet it was the same picture being shown at two locations: a biography of Lester at Intergirtynews.wetpaint.com while simultaneously being used to identify Lex at his website Lex Talk America. To me, this is not an indication that they are twins; rather it is an indication of a narcistic hoaxster. I doubt seriously that twins would use the exact same photographic glossies when presenting themselves. All humans have vanity. When I wrote what I wrote about Lex, Lester, Lester K., Lester Knox, II, III, Thomas Leavy, and Tomas O'Leary, I was engulfed in the particulars surrounding everyone's participation in Pan Am 103, Inslaw, and in Lester Knox Coleman's court cases. Everything suggested that a hoax was being perpetrated by a very skillful fabricator, one who had been released apparently from prison, and had returned to his Middle Eastern associations, and was trying to erase a portion of his past while also securing a more exciting future. When I suggested the merger, I was not suggesting that the entity should be punished for something like sockpuppetry (*grin*) but rather that his "biography to the world" should contain whatever a combined article could offer, and in a way which was an interesting biography of a very colorful character. It looks like you guys are onto the right track. Goodbye. I must disappear now and accept my demise without whining. (I am sorry that I really do not have the time to go into greater detail as my employer's Wikipedia IP may be permanently blocked due to whatever is done at this moment from this IP.) Annie Teedham 24.170.224.225 (talk) 14:26, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I'm not sure exactly what to say Annie. You've presented an interesting story but with no concrete facts. For those commenting on this discussion I suggest that you stick to facts. As it stands, there are still zero sources backing up the claims of this article. Several of the facts are provably wrong. There is no evidence establishing this subject's notability. Regardless of the convoluted diatribes above, this article still fails to meet the requirements established at WP:Notability.Nrswanson (talk) 14:52, 16 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strongly oppose merge None of the evidence you have presented proves anything. Everything you have produced goes back to personal websites, blogs, and other highly unreliable sources like myspace. I see no value in merging any of the content from this article into Lester Coleman as the info is highly suspect. Further, it would be better to make a clean start and wipe out the obvious hoax side of this article's history.Broadweighbabe (talk) 04:05, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Comment it appears user:Petri Krohn has attempted a merger of Lex Coleman and Lesther Coleman against consensus here. I still strongly question whether the professor at American University of Technology can be connected to the American intelligence officer based on existing sources and think the merger a bad idea. He has also tried to pre-empt this AFD by redirecting the article on Lex Coleman to Lesther Coleman and removing the AFD notice. Broadweighbabe has reverted him once and I have reverted him once. Petri Krohn would you please rephrane from unilaterally making decisions and let this AFD take its natural course. Thanks.Nrswanson (talk) 04:33, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, I agree that both articles have been from the start under heavy hoax attacks, see Talk:Lester Coleman#Dead or alive?. Everything needs to be verified and a large number of edits needs to be reverted. However this whole discussion on merging is totally moot. Everything that is verifiable needs to go to Lester Coleman. As for the notability issue; you cannot find Lester Coleman notable and Lex Coleman not notable, as they truly are one and the same persion. The only source for them being distinct is Wikipedia as edited by Coleman himself. He created this article as Lexcolemanllc (talk · contribs). I am to blame for marking the aticles with the {{Distinguish}} hat-texts. When I found the articles in January they made no reference to each other. I considered proposing a merge, but seeing that the articles had been heavily edited by Lex II and Lexcoleman (talk · contribs), I tought Lex would know if he and his "brother" were the same person. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 05:41, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well this article asserts (or at least asserted before your edits) that they are indeed two different people and since no evidence has been produced that definitely links the professor at American University of Technology to the American intelligence officer I think we have to assume for the moment that they may be seperate individuals. I personally disagree with your decision to put the American University of Technology information in the Lester Coleman article for this reason. There's really nothing here that can be merged because its all suspect info from shady sources. Almost all of your current edits to Lester Coleman is original research Petri. What you are doing replaces the hoax article with something just as bad, if not worse, since its more likely to be believed by the casual reader.Nrswanson (talk) 05:59, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • The material I moved to Lester is sourced from Trail of the Octopus — like most other stuff there. Of course it should not be stated as fact, as was done here, but be attributed to the book, unless other sources are found. -- Petri Krohn (talk) 06:13, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
  • That's absolutely inaccurate Petri. You added much more than that to the article, including the third paragraph of the lead which should be removed entirely as original research. ([2]) Nrswanson (talk) 06:22, 17 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

←I felt I had to strike my !vote, simply because I do not know the answer here. It's all very interesting, and I'll try to keep track of it over the coming weeks - but I don't feel I have enough solid knowledge to supply any input for now. Good Luck to all. ;) — Ched ~ (yes?)/© 04:56, 18 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

  • Summary of above. I hope this summary will help other editors comment or close this AFD. As of right now the only concrete evidence about this person is that he is a professor at a minor academic institution in Lebanon. This is only supported, however, through sources directly related to the University which are therefore not really independent of the subject. The supposed notable academic achievement of Audiophonic visual isolation has been deleted in a seperate AFD (Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Audiophonic visual isolation) for being non-notable. Clearly fails WP:PROF. There is no evidence found in extensive searches which proves he was ever a White House Correspondent, winner of an Edward R. Murrow Award, winner of an Emmy Award, producer with ABC News, or Director of Public Affairs for the Boys Scouts of America. These are all high profile positions/awards and there should be evidence easily found for all of these. As there isn't this whole thing is a major hoax. User:Petri Krohn believes he is the same person as Lester Coleman, but thats really only his opinion as no evidence establishes this. He has merged some of the information in this article into that one, which I view as a woefully bad editorial decision. That issue, however, is really seperate from this AFD and should be addressed at Talk:Lester Coleman. In conclusion, this article is clearly full of false information and what little is true fails to meet WP:N requirements for notability.Nrswanson (talk) 05:05, 21 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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