Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Manaf Tlass

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. WP:SNOW The Bushranger _{One ping only} 20:43, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Manaf Tlass

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Non-notable, one event. FunkMonk (talk) 22:12, 5 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The man is notable as one of the inner circle. More work needs to be done to discover notable events of his in the past, though. rawb (talk) 01:00, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That is hardly notable enough for Wikipedia in itself. FunkMonk (talk) 00:56, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The article needs expansion, but the man is clearly notable. If his defection is true, then it would be the highest level defection yet in the Syrian conflict, and quite possibly the only defection so far of someone from Assad's inner circle. As the Tlass family has previously been very close to the Assad's, it also shows that the leadership is becoming increasingly fractured as a result of the regimes response to the uprising. This is a notable person, and a notable event, giving a better insight into the the government handling of the uprising, and no doubt further information on Manaf will emerge soon. MrPenguin20 (talk) 10:02, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is obviously notable. Mezigue (talk) 10:48, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. Very notable, as confirmed by BBC that developed a profile for him.Egeymi (talk) 13:13, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. This article is so clearly notable, I would question how it could possibly be nominated for deletion. Especially now that he is all over the mainstream news, in articles such as this one.--Bernie44 (talk) 13:35, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Bernie44 for your direct approach which I could not display.Egeymi (talk) 13:38, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Suggesting Speedy keep -- highly notable, would be so even if not for recent events, due to his significance within the regime. BBC has a profile of him here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-18734785 , describing him as "a member of Mr Assad's so-called inner circle", and the Daily Telegraph describes him as a "key general". One 2005 source reported that "Manaf Tlas, son of former Defence Minister Mustafa Tlas, and Bashar's brother Mahir, are the effective heads of the Republican Guard, perhaps the most potent fighting force in Syria." The BBC reports that he had been under a "form of house arrest since May 2011", so this is also more than just a recent event.
Google News shows over 1000 articles on his (presumed) defection, and they are front page stories on many media outlets. A non-notable person's defection would not hit the front pages of the global news media in this way.
Note that as of this comment, all commenters apart from the proposer have expressed opinions that this is a keep/speedy keep, using similar arguments to the above. -- Chronulator (talk) 15:04, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I could agree with merging him with his father's article. I have not seen a single new argument which isn't just "he was significant to the regime", that is till just a one event rationale, he never did anything notable other than defecting, his father, however, is notable, so merge him into that article. FunkMonk (talk) 16:06, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

That argument is simply countered: if you do an online archive search, you can see that, because of this significant role in the regime, Manaf Tlas has been the subject of discussion in citeable news articles, books, and research papers all the way back to 2003 (see the book Syria: Neither Bread Nor Freedom), establishing clear notability under the WP:GNG criteria, independently of that related to this most recent event. (Edit: actually, he's mentioned in an article in Le Monde Diplomatique in almost the same breath as Bashar al-Assad, in an article published in 2000: [1], at the time of Assad's rise to power)

Now read WP:BLP1E: there are three criteria there that all need to be satistfied to exclude an individual from being covered by their own article under that rule, and two of the three of them are falsified by the evidence above. Most of all, BLP1E itself states that "WP:BLP1E should be applied only to biographies of low-profile individuals." "Low-profile" does not cover people who are the subject of comment by global news media over the course of a decade. WP:BIO clearly applies, and WP:BLP1E does not, making this a procedural speedy keep. -- Chronulator (talk) 16:27, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

How can it be suggested that it should be merged with Mustafa Tlass page. Is it fair? It is waste of time to establish the notability of a person who is notable as evidenced by Chronulator and by media reports.Egeymi (talk) 17:05, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Article clearly meets WP:GNG. The subject is notable and the article should be kept. Thanks. Ism schism (talk) 17:50, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Politicians-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 21:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Military-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 21:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Syria-related deletion discussions. ★☆ DUCKISPEANUTBUTTER☆★ 21:34, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - he's a brigadier general, passes Milhist guidelines on flag/general officers, and he's commanded in 'combat'; this uprising. Definite keep, strange nomination. Buckshot06 (talk) 23:21, 6 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - very important former figure in Assad's inner circle. The following report from before the Syrian uprising indicates his relevance in the Syrian elite inner circle [2]. Also, the article as of today is well cited and researched. Guest2625 (talk) 00:02, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Update to my previous comments: See this news story: "Tlass defection will shake Syria's Sunnis". The National. 8 July 2012. Quote: "Manaf Tlass was no ordinary general. He served on the central committee of the ruling Baath party." -- Chronulator (talk) 20:33, 7 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep easily meets WP:GNG. Valenciano (talk) 13:18, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep As Velanciano wrote, it easily meets WP:GNG. Former member of inner circle, former general in most elite military unit, member of most prominent sunni family of Syria who took his things and defected. If that isn´t notable, I don´t know what is. It seems to me that FunkMonk is just pushing his own POV. EllsworthSK (talk) 13:48, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Keep - Article meets the guidleines of WP:GNG, I'm not seeing how it's "non-notable", nor do I think that WP:BLP1E applies. - Sudo Ghost 19:06, 8 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.