Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Meat Machine

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep‎. Eddie891 ^Talk _Work 19:45, 20 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Meat Machine

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Non-notable group; fails WP:BAND. Very little coverage of their work or any of the members. MidnightMayhem 14:25, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shellwood (talk) 14:42, 13 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Question. @MidnightMayhem: Did you conduct a WP:BEFORE search? Where did you look? Cielquiparle (talk) 03:49, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Update. Leaning keep. Added some refs, expanded lede, started removing completely extraneous info. If anyone can get their hands on back issues of Melody Maker (May 16, 1992) and Kerrang! (1993–1994) please shout. Cielquiparle (talk) 05:16, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
User:Cielquiparle:
Melody Maker: 1992-05-16, 1993-12-25, 1993-08-14, 1992-02-29.

Kerang!: 1993-1994
-- GreenC 16:28, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks @GreenC. What's frustrating is that Internet Archive has all the back issues of Kerrang! as PDFs through 1980s but not 1993–1994. The two hits you got are not the actual magazine issues. Cielquiparle (talk) 20:16, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I look at it glass half full: it's a small miracle they have any of this at all, for free that anyone can access, without even an account. They have at least 5 times as much digitized material as the Library of Congress, are easily the largest digital collection in the world including surpassing Google. -- GreenC 22:59, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
@GreenC Oh for sure. It's awesome. I'm just genuinely trying to fix the article (now rather than kicking the can down the road). Nearly there. Cielquiparle (talk) 11:09, 16 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
I did. I first conducted a general search through Google as recommended at the WP:BEFORE guidelines and found no notable news articles on the group. I then looked through reference databases including AllMusic and The Encyclopedia of Popular Music, which again turned up no results. The group won no major awards and did not chart with any released work. I concluded that there were not enough sources and WP:SUSTAINED coverage to meet WP:BAND. I see you've found some articles that mention them, but I'm still not sure there's enough to establish notability. MidnightMayhem 06:38, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
They made this chart. Melody Maker predates Rolling Stone was an important mag. -- GreenC 16:32, 15 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for specifying @MidnightMayhem. Per WP:DILIGENCE, It is a good idea to explain the searches you performed in your nomination statement. It just helps everyone else understand where you searched, so that we understand your reasoning and also know where else to search. Cielquiparle (talk) 10:57, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:GNG and WP:HEY. The article was in terrible shape when it was first nominated, but has been completely rewritten with citations throughout. Please see Meat Machine now. Strongest pieces of coverage about this 1990s British industrial metal band included the 1992 feature article "Slaughterhouse four" in Melody Maker, a major British weekly music magazine, accessed via the Internet Archive (which is a good place to look for this time period and genre). In addition, in February 1992, the band's single "Times Of Addiction" was ranked No. 7 in the Melody Maker Top 10 Solid Grooves chart. We generally prefer to find coverage in multiple sources (i.e., more than one publication), and in this case we have several pieces of coverage in Kerrang! magazine as well: This 2019 article in Kerrang!, "14 songs about the Manson family", has one paragraph on Meat Machine and its song "Charles Manson (Rise and Fall)" which was Kerrang! Single of the Week in 1993, with a YouTube link to the track. Although back issues of Kerrang! magazine are currently unavailable online (Internet Archive currently only has Issues 1 through 40), the "Further reading" section of the article suggests that the 24 July 1993 issue includes coverage of the Meat Machine being named "Single of the Week" (also per the 2019 online article); that the 28 August 1993 issue includes a Meat Machine concert review; that the 23 October 1993 issue includes an album review of Slug; and that the 29 January 1994 issue includes an interview with band members, most likely one of their final pieces of coverage before they broke up. There are also several other pieces of coverage now cited in the article, including recording reviews in various zines, and a 2014 article with three paragraphs about Meat Machine's original keyboardist, Ford [Shawcross], published in Disability Arts magazine. There are also mentions of Meat Machine in Dutch newspapers and Japanese websites (and offline books). All in all, this demonstrates enduring interest in Meat Machine both nationally and internationally, over a WP:SUSTAINED period of time, largely due to the fact that their 12" single "Charles Manson (Rise and Fall)" is part of the oeuvre of songs about the Manson Family. Thanks to GreenC for the links to the Melody Maker archives. Cielquiparle (talk) 12:59, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep per WP:GNG (and WP:HEY). Article significantly improved after BEFORE-type work to find sources. Nice work, Cielquiparle. -- GreenC 18:33, 17 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]
Keep as the article has been substantially improved since nomination so that the references such as Melody Maker, Kerrang, and zines and books show a pass of WP:GNG in my view, Atlantic306 (talk) 22:36, 18 May 2025 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.