- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. MBisanz talk 05:36, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Ming Freeman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)
This person simply doesn't seem notable enough under WP:MUSIC. (I will note that there are concert schedules on his Web site that suggests notable tours; however, there is nothing independent that I think I can see that suggests that it gets "nontrivial coverage" as WP:MUSIC requires.) Delete. --Nlu (talk) 13:08, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete I wanted to say keep, but I can't find significant coverage anywhere. Jenuk1985 | Talk 13:41, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. -- the wub "?!" 14:24, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Weak delete I'm a bit surprised by this one too... if the information in the article is true, you'd think there would be good sources. There aren't any that I can find. Andrew Lenahan - Starblind 17:50, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete: insufficient independent 3rd party coverage WP:MUSICBIO. JamesBurns (talk) 23:51, 3 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Living people-related deletion discussions. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 00:01, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep (as the original author). This artist has toured with many notable artists, including Yanni for whom he has participated in live world tour album/video recordings such as: Tribute, Yanni Live at Royal Albert Hall, and Yanni Live! The Concert Event and will be participating in Yanni's upcoming 2009 tour as well. Also endorsements with numerous companies including MUSE RESEARCH (Receptor) and Korg [1] but admittedly unsure how this relates to notability guidelines of WP:Music. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 20:36, 4 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
I share the sentiments expressed above that, while the description would have me believe this person is notable, I cannot find any independent sources either, and have to agree with deletion. If even one good source is found, that would change the picture; two good sources would be almost a SNOW keep. I will watch this page and if someone finds and adds sources, I will reconsider. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 18:02, 6 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I would of course like to see this article stay, but I am admittedly having trouble finding independent sources myself, other than the endorsements, but there is no musician criteria that mentions endorsements. Hmmmm. Seems it should, ordinary musicians don't get endorsements I'm guessing. Anyway, I haven't visited the criteria for quite some time - but I remember there being one that included extensive touring, but I don't see that one any more. I'm sure I created his article on that basis a few years ago. Anyway, I have been in hopes of finding one current criteria where this artist fits, as he only has to meet one, (independent sources is only one of those) but to no avail. Kinda doesn't make sense though because of all the notable artists he has toured or recorded with and the notable live concert films to which he is linked. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 01:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Additional note: This note is at the bottom of the criteria: Members of two notable bands are generally notable enough for their own article. Would this apply as meeting the one required criterion? ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 01:34, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I would of course like to see this article stay, but I am admittedly having trouble finding independent sources myself, other than the endorsements, but there is no musician criteria that mentions endorsements. Hmmmm. Seems it should, ordinary musicians don't get endorsements I'm guessing. Anyway, I haven't visited the criteria for quite some time - but I remember there being one that included extensive touring, but I don't see that one any more. I'm sure I created his article on that basis a few years ago. Anyway, I have been in hopes of finding one current criteria where this artist fits, as he only has to meet one, (independent sources is only one of those) but to no avail. Kinda doesn't make sense though because of all the notable artists he has toured or recorded with and the notable live concert films to which he is linked. ♫ Cricket02 (talk) 01:24, 7 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Update While I cannot access any of the new sources directly, I'll second the points made below by Paul Erik and Lilac Soul and assume the content of these sources does deem notability, and thus make it right to keep this article. I second too the desire for links or just better access information, but the asserted experience of this person makes me lenient in demanding same. Baccyak4H (Yak!) 03:05, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so consensus may be reached - an unusual one this, giving it more time for sources to be found. If none can be, then delete would be the only option.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Black Kite 12:02, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I've added 9 references just now. Freeman gets many "hits" in a search of my database of newspaper articles, mostly for concert tours with Yanni (although I also found one mention for a tour with Paula Abdul and another with Ronnie Laws). Although some of the reviews do nothing more than confirm he was in Yanni's band, other reviewers have gone out of their way to discuss Freeman's skill as a keyboardist and his role in the performances. With non-trivial mentions in multiple newspapers, I'd say he meets criterion #1 of WP:MUSICBIO. Keep. Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 15:42, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment and possible keep, it is difficult to determine whether the mentions are non-trivial, as required by WP:GNG and specifically WP:MUSICBIO. However, in a leap of good faith, I'm assuming that what you dug out actually is non-trivial, and if so, I'll vote to keep the article. It would be great, however, if you could link to free online versions of these reviews and articles, if such exist, so the rest of us can easily verify notability. -Lilac Soul (talk • contribs • count) 17:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not aware of any of these newspapers offering free online versions for these time periods. If it helps, an example of a source I did not include is this article, since it does nothing more than confirm that Freeman was keyboardist for Yanni. All the sources I added represent more significant coverage than this brief mention. Paul Erik (talk)(contribs) 22:28, 11 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment and possible keep, it is difficult to determine whether the mentions are non-trivial, as required by WP:GNG and specifically WP:MUSICBIO. However, in a leap of good faith, I'm assuming that what you dug out actually is non-trivial, and if so, I'll vote to keep the article. It would be great, however, if you could link to free online versions of these reviews and articles, if such exist, so the rest of us can easily verify notability. -Lilac Soul (talk • contribs • count) 17:08, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep There are now sufficient sources to be make it notable. Ancemy (talk) 17:15, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Meets WP:RS standards. Pastor Theo (talk) 22:45, 8 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.