- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was Nomination withdrawn. —Quarl (talk) 2006-12-26 15:16Z
Article on a professional wrestler that does not illustrate the subject's notability or reason for inclusion in Wikipedia. It appears that he has never wrestled on national television or for a major promotion. As it stands now, it seems that he is a non-notable indy wrestler waiting for his big break. Until said break comes, he does not merit an article. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 19:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Nomination withdrawn. This AfD has spurred enough improvements to illustrate the subject's worthiness of inclusion in Wikipedia, if just barely. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 00:08, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep - I found some press mentions through Google News and according to the article he has won several championships, so he seems notable enough to be included. Jayden54 19:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment, I've seen that he has won some indy titles, but is that alone enough to make someone notable enough for the 'pedia? youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 19:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete "independent wrestler". I also speedied the image as a total G12. - crz crztalk 19:54, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Weakest of the keeps Three IWA King of the Deathmatch tournaments basically revolved around him, and he has a significant cult following. Mytildebang 21:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Really he is a notable wrestler who has wrestled for several major promotions among those IWA, JAPW, and others. He has wrestled wrestling legends such as Gypsy Joe, as well as wreslted some of today's stars such a Samoa Joe. He was most recently involved in a high profile RoH feaud between Ring of Honor and Combat Zone Wrestling Indy wrestler have been credited as notable in many cases depending on where they work and independent of national television appearances NegroSuave 21:53, 21 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete no claims of notability in article or anything to seperate him from the countless other indy wrestlers. Wrestling a famous wrestler doesn't mean squat since many older wrestlers work the indy circuit when they can't get work with with a major promotion like WWE (Abdullah the Butcher was still wrestling in his 70s). TJ Spyke 00:28, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment His feuds are just one aspect of his character indeed, however being in a notable fed with a notable feud establishes notability. He is not a brand new wrestler he has been wrestlign for several years at this point and has recently begun to establish his notability. For the most part people who have been in a notable fed in a notable feud have articles about them. The information is verifiable. And he isn't wretling washed up superstars, he is wrestling the top stars in the industry today, Samoa Joe, Homicide (wrestler) just to name a scant few. He is in firmly in the upper echelon of indy wrestlers which is why he has an article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by NegroSuave (talk • contribs) 14:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]
- Keep - Just being an indy wrestler should not automatically make a subject non-notable. As far as indy wrestlers go, my impression is that he is notorious, if nothing else, and that places him above the undistinguished masses of people just "waiting for a break", even if he's not at the highest level of indy notability. If his article lacks mention of his notability, it should be added rather than deleting the article. Geoffg 03:29, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- This AFD gives it that chance. The article has to proove it's notable, if no notability is established before 5 days then it should be deleted. TJ Spyke 04:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- I have added a couple of statements to the article that I think summarize his notability, and a couple of citations. Geoffg 05:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- This AFD gives it that chance. The article has to proove it's notable, if no notability is established before 5 days then it should be deleted. TJ Spyke 04:15, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Combat Zone Wrestling has been on TV, I have seen him in RoH on TV. That is noticeable to me And he has more accomplishments than most other wrestlers around. I would say that this is worth keeping. I don't understand why this is nominated for deletion in the first place. Govvy 23:22, 22 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Do you mean "notable" or "noticable?" Also, remember that a characters "accomplishments" are the work of scriptwriters. We also try to avoid writing and including articles on pro wrestlers for markish reason. (I've gotten pwned for that myself, when I tried to insert the section heading "The Big Red Machine" in the Glen Jacobs article :) ). youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 01:07, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Yes accomplishments are the work of writers and bookers, but if the wrestler isn't either talented enough, or popular enough, those bookers and writers wouldn't put him in that spot to begin with. Stephen Day 15:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep He is a pretty well known independent wrestler. HorseApples 02:13, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep Just because it's not WWE doesn't mean he isn't important. Butcher is a pretty huge name. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.176.85.30 (talk) 07:29, 23 December 2006 (UTC).[reply]
- Keep, very well known and famous in deathmatch wrestling as well as the indies. –– Lid(Talk) 08:49, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep, Combat Zone Wrestling, Chikara, Ring of Honour in the States; Frontier Wrestling Alliance in the UK; Big Japan Pro Wrestling in Japan. The thing that all these companies have in common is that they are among the premier independant promotions from around the world. I fail to see how a wrestler can wrestle for the top independant promotions on a monthly basis and not be considered notable. Stephen Day 15:11, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I can see where you are coming from, but playing AAA baseball, D-I college sports, or being in an indy flick do not inherently impart notability. While all of those feds notable themselves, many of their wrestlers do not quite reach that level. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 00:03, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. I'd argue that the comparison between AAA baseball and pro wrestling independants isn't an accurate one. A fairer comparison would be to idependant movies as the structures of the movie industry and pro wrestling have more similarities. A major idependant movie actor is notable enough for inclusion just as a major idependant wrestler is. Stephen Day 03:55, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Comment. By the time that you made the comment, the nomination had been withdrawn. The best place to further the discussion would be the article talk page. Thanks. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 22:02, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete per nom. WVhybrid 16:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Keep as he is among the bigger names in independent wrestling. If this was some guy who had wrestled in minor independent promotions, I could see the page being deleted, but it isn't. He's a major name and I question why anyone would vote to delete it, as they're clearly not familiar with the subject. No offense to the deletionists doing so. Calaschysm 15:33, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Thanks for your comment, but the nomination has already been withdrawn. youngamerican (ahoy hoy) 21:59, 24 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.