Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Octet Ensemble

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete. Jo-Jo Eumerus (talk, contributions) 16:31, 2 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Octet Ensemble

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NN musical group. No assertion of notability, only released one album. The album may be notable, but it doesn't appear that way at present. MSJapan (talk) 20:17, 20 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete as I myself have simply found nothing actually better, the article basically says it all too; nothing at all close to minimally convincing. SwisterTwister talk 23:58, 20 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion about other related WP:WALLEDGARDEN articles and COI (recommend !voters to read it)

Comment: "Plan"

Originally I had said, at the William Susman AfD, that I didn't think Belarca Records would be viable as stand-alone article, however, this may be sufficient independent reliable sources on their CDs for such article:

So the article could be somewhat like this: its lead section about the label's founder and the Naxos distribution;

First section about artists and ensembles: current AfD articles that may redirect to this section:
- William Susman (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – i.e. close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Susman as "redirect to Belarca Records" instead of delete/keep
- Octet Ensemble (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – i.e. close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Octet Ensemble as "redirect to Belarca Records" instead of delete/keep
- Erika Tazawa (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – i.e. close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Erika Tazawa as "redirect to Belarca Records" instead of delete/keep
- Matteo Sommacal (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – i.e. close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Matteo Sommacal as "redirect to Belarca Records" instead of delete/keep
- Piccola Accademia degli Specchi (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – i.e. close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Piccola Accademia degli Specchi as "redirect to Belarca Records" instead of delete/keep

Also the formerly deleted Francesco Di Fiore may redirect here

Second section about the label's releases. Current AfDs that may redirect here:
- Fate of the Lhapa (soundtrack) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – i.e. close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fate of the Lhapa (soundtrack) as "redirect to Belarca Records" instead of delete/keep
- Oil on Ice (soundtrack) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – i.e. close Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Oil on Ice (soundtrack) as "redirect to Belarca Records" instead of delete/keep

Other titles can be made into redirects to this section too.

(sorry for the unusual presentation of this plan: I created this reply on a separate page in my userspace in order to post it as a template on several AfDs concurrently) --Francis Schonken (talk) 08:15, 22 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The problem with this, if I have understood you correctly, is that Belarca Records is not a notable label and currently redirects to William Susman, who at least has a marginal notability. It is basically no different than a self-published book. It has very few recordings, and all of them including or devoted to Susman's work. And note that it is marketed through Naxos Direct, which, as has been pointed out. is no different to Amazon or CDBaby. It is not a sub-label of Naxos Records. Finally, small labels like this draw their notability from the notability of the artists and ensembles who record for them. If none of them are independently notable, then neither is the label. In my view, this is not helpful. The decision should be made on each of the artist/ensemble articles separately. This kind of transclusion of a sub-discussion also causes a potential mess in AfDs. Voceditenore (talk) 09:16, 22 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

OK, I'll "subst:" the template content to the AfD pages in order to avoid creating AfD confusion. Can we keep the centralised discussion on this idea at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/William Susman#William Susman then (no need to do the same discussion over in the different places)? --Francis Schonken (talk) 09:33, 22 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

"Restart" - In an effort to address the issue without getting mired in the subst above, Octet Ensemble, if it is to be kept, needs to meet WP:NMUSIC on its own. The fact that Susman is involved is irrelevant, as one possibly notable person does not make the group notable. The fact that it's on Susman's label is irrelevant, because the label can't be notable because of Susman. We have here a group that has released one album on an indie label, did nothing for three years previous, and has done nothing since. The fact that the guy who started the group also owns the label doesn't matter, except to maybe make a case against notability. MSJapan (talk) 18:00, 22 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- There's no harm in suggesting "redirect" during an AfD debate. Since William Susman, listed above among the current AfDs, seem likely to survive its AfD, I'd tentatively suggest to convert the Octet Ensemble article into a redirect to William Susman. --Francis Schonken (talk) 04:58, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

That's fine, but it's the 4 million unrelated articles in here that are making the thread hard to manage. The individual AfDs just aren't the right place to do the "overarching plan" sort of thing. MSJapan (talk) 05:07, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, and you seem to have messed up the links from the bands and musicians delsort page, which now are circular links back to the delsort page. Whatever it is you did please don't do it anymore. I'll try and fix those links. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:31, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Bands and musicians-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:33, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Well, I can't. Congratulations, you broke deletion sorting. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 14:34, 23 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
- Hmm, Pharaoh of the Wizards seemed to fix it when he collapsed this section. Shawn in Montreal (talk) 19:02, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Delete Fails WP:NMUSIC and WP:GNG .Now only one debut album Scatter My Ashes has been released by William Susman in 2011.It is case of WP:TOOSOON at best.Pharaoh of the Wizards (talk) 15:30, 25 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Another of the plants in the WP:WALLEDGARDEN. Fails GNG and NMUSIC. One album is not sufficient and there is no coverage anyway. --Lemongirl942 (talk) 08:42, 28 July 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.