- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. - Bobet 09:04, 30 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
There appears to be no independent corroboration of the existence of the Paghman Saadat. Biographical material on Ikbal Ali Shah and his offspring and their offspring should be moved to their respective pages. The article appears to have been written mainly to promote Idries Shah, while avoiding the dispute about his claims. Jedermann 15:35, 14 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Why not merge the articles. If not a very large amount of accurate information (which is what an encyclopedia is about) will be lost, which amounts to vandalising. (Lunarian 17:17, 14 August 2006 (UTC))[reply]
- Already suggested on the discussion page. No response.
BTW, how is Wikipedia to determine whether the information on a trickster figure is accurate and not deliberate misinformation repeated by uncritical hagiographers? Idries Shah's statements about his origins, early years and activities were notoriously inaccurate. He grew up in England from 1927, but allowed his follower Elizabeth Hall to repeat his myth that he first went there in 1960. And so on... Jedermann 09:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- And so on, and so on. But I doubt Wikipedia is going to determine.
You are, by refinening your studious judgement. "Jedermann" means "Everybody" (Elckerlyke), no? So do not worry. (Lunarian 09:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC))[reply]
- I must apologize for budding in again. I had to verify something that may be to the point about the article under discussion. When the links are carefully examined it follows that Idries Shah was accepted as an advisor for the Institute for the Study of Human Knowledge (ISHK) alongside James Burke, William C. Dement, Edward T. Hall, Rene Dubos, Paul Ralph Ehrlich, Jonas Salk, Hans Selye, Roger Sperry. I have ommitted Doris Lessing for reasons of sensitivity among critics. It is not up to me to judge who among them are the real "posers". I hope my remark may help to take the same care for other details mentioned.
Always willing to bend an elbow, yours sincerly (Lunarian 18:48, 15 August 2006 (UTC))[reply]
- The Institute for the Study of Human Knowledge (ISHK = ishq) was set up by Bob Ornstein, Shah's deputy in the USA. Is it surprising that IS was 'accepted as an advisor', or that they invited him to speak there, or that they gave him an 'award' for so doing? This article should be deleted. Ridding it of promotional material would leave next to nothing, IMO. Jedermann 14:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Are you privy also to Robert Ornsteins tenure at Stanford University or was that a bum ride ? I doubt that promotion is going to be of much avail to IS in the position he reclined to. The ideas he proposed deserve attention. But ideas you should be generous to. Have you noticed the article integrates ideas on Max Müller, Thomas Merton, on Viktor Frankl? Did you know about Reza Arasteh?
If I am not mistaken the bibliography refers to the biography of Robert Graves that carries all the criticism you need, if you really want to balance your opinion.(Lunarian 18:57, 16 August 2006 (UTC))[reply]
- For the last time, the place for presenting I. Shah's ideas is on his own page - not in a manufactured POV-fork. On a point of English, 'mentioning' Mueller and Frankl does not amount to 'integrating' them. The first sentence really sets the intellectual tone, since Muhammad had no male line of descent. Jedermann 14:04, 17 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- You are right of course. The english is not perfect. And, "...males accepted as descendants..." it ought to have been (Sayyid).
What is a man to say about this ? Delete and get it over with, I guess. But since I cheer for the weasel I still say: do not delete. And since you promise to stay out of the picture, I will too. It's oblivion for both of us anyway.(Lunarian 23:08, 17 August 2006 (UTC))[reply]
- This AfD nomination was incomplete. It is listed now. DumbBOT 10:55, 23 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Not notable based on the number of hits on google most of which are from wikipedia. Maybe a merge into something? The article is so confusing I have no idea what it could be merged into. If kept, it needs a total cleanup. Vegaswikian 22:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- Delete. Incoherent text. Mukadderat 19:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.