- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was no consensus. Stifle (talk) 08:28, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
- Patrick Pinney (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Unable to find reliable, secondary sources which evidence the notability of this voice actor. Additional sources welcomed, as always. joe deckertalk 16:09, 1 April 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Actors and filmmakers-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Comics and animation-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of California-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 19:10, 4 April 2016 (UTC)
Keep, Pinney has an extensive career as a voice actor and has a following of sorts. His career spans a quarter of a century and has over eighty credits. He also has a few credited physical acting roles as well as some small parts. Again this is another article that needs a lot of work. 12:29, 5 April 2016 (UTC)
- Delete as I would've also considered Keep however my searches found nothing better aside from a few links and the IMDb is not anything convincing so I have to suggest Delete. SwisterTwister talk 04:42, 6 April 2016 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —UY Scuti Talk 19:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, —UY Scuti Talk 19:40, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- Delete Unless superior, secondary, independent and reliable sources can be found to establish notability. All my searches turned up were fan wikis and indexes; unfortunately nothing approaching our RS standards. Snow let's rap 21:53, 8 April 2016 (UTC)
- Keep This article is in need of serious work, but its subject is definitely notable. I'll try to look for some more sources when I have the time. Derbundeskanzler (talk) 18:11, 10 April 2016 (UTC)
- Derbundeskanzler (and Karl Twist) with respect, that's not how this works; in order for this article to survive the AfD, we're going to need to see sources which establish the topic's WP:NOTABILITY--as a practical matter, we can't just go on the blanket and unqualified assumption that "it's definitely notable!". Are you really certain there are sources out there that meet our WP:RS standards and are suitable to establishing notability for this man under WP:GNG or WP:ACTOR? Because several of us have looked and found nothing. If you're certain they exist and want this article to stay, the WP:BURDEN is on you to provide them now, not just assurances that those sources "must" exist and will show up some day. If you can find said sources, I will happily change my !vote, but the AfD process requires more than guesswork. Snow let's rap 01:44, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- Hollywood.com has a biography for the actor here, and while it seems the "All Movie Guide" biography linked from the following page was left unarchived, there is an archived page from The New York Times we could use to source some of his roles here. Derbundeskanzler (talk) 02:33, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- It also seems that Karl Twist has added a few different sources to the article. Derbundeskanzler (talk) 18:15, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- I'm still adding to it Derbundeskanzler. I'm going to do more work on it as well. Karl Twist (talk) 13:02, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- Guys, I don't mean to discount your good-faith efforts here, but all any of these sources do is list credits; not a single one of them discusses Pinney beyond listing his name and the role he played. Further, only one of these sources comes anywhere close to meeting our WP:Reliable source standards. Please see WP:Notability; we need in-depth coverage of the topic and its impact, not a dozen different variations on a TV.com role list. I'm afraid that I can't change my !vote based on anything presented so far, and if these sources represent the best that two dedicated fans can dig up with several days to work at it, I daresay this is pretty conclusive evidence that this individual is non-notable, for the purpose of Wikipedia's policies on such. Snow let's rap 03:21, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
- Hi Snow Rise, first of all I would like to say that I am not a fan! Prior to coming across this article for deletion, I was only vaguely aware of Pinney and only because I had seen it here and there as a reference to voice overs. Also don't like animated films and loathe these cartoons on tv. There is now another source that "discusses Pinney beyond listing his name".
Here at 411 Mania, the review : Marvel’s Agents of SHIELD 3.16 Review – ‘Paradise Lost’, The Review by Wayatt Beougher. Pinney is even mentioned in an unrelated article as you can see. Industry-wise he is now being referenced. This is just a few hours old. Hot off the press so to speak. So now you can raise the tally from "only one of these sources comes anywhere close to meeting our WP:Reliable source standards" to two. I think I can find another to make that total three. He's also mentioned in books as well. Given time I believe this article will satisfy the strictest folk here. So the question is, Why am I going to such an effort to improve the article and save it ? The answer is that I believe him to be notable. Yes he has only had around 6 - 8 on screen acting roles that I have been able to locate. Actually I will increase that as he has done 33 episodes as Harry in Harry and the Hendersons tv series. Also he has done some stage work.He was an announcer in 3 episodes of Thank God You're Here.
As a voice actor however he has had 13 episodes as Balkar / Terra / Klone in Blackstar, 7 episodes in The Dukes, 17 episodes as Mainframe in G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero, 48 episodes in The Centurions, 19 episodes as Mighty Mouse and Mike Mouse (main roles). He did 2 episodes in Spider-Man Tv series as The Thing / Benjamin J. Grimm, 3 episodes as Fish #1 / Zoo Keeper / Security Guard and others in SpongeBob SquarePants, 48 episodes as Wormguy / Alien / Worm Emperor etc in Men in Black: The Animated Series, 2 episodes in Jackie Chan Adventures with 1 as Dr. Weber. He has also done 13 episodes in various credited roles on Robot Chicken. Then add about 30 other voice-over roles in various programs and films and that's quite an amount.
Even though there is no doubt in my mind that Pinney is notable, I will say that we also have to view voice actors with another kind of mindset. I have looed at other voice actors in Wikipedia and many are screen actors with a much smaller amount of voice work. Pinney is the other way around. He is a prolific voice actor with a much smaller amount of on screen work. I dare say though that his role as Mannheim Hofflung in the Charles Dennis directed film Chicanery may change that. Thanks Karl Twist (talk) 11:31, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, Hollywood.com does go in-depth about his career in the following paragraph on their site:
- Over the duration of his career, Patrick Pinney exercised his vocal talents in a range of films. Pinney worked on a variety of projects during his early entertainment career, including "Casual Sex?" with Lea Thompson (1988), "DuckTales: The Movie" with Alan Young (1990) and "Project X" with Matthew Broderick (1987). He also contributed to "The Chipmunk Adventure" (1987) starring Ross Bagdasarian Jr., the Hamilton Camp and Ed Gilbert hit "The Little Mermaid" (1989) and "The Terminator" (1984). After that, Pinney moved on to lend his vocal talents for roles in films like the Paige O'Hara blockbuster animated film "Beauty and the Beast" (1991) and the Lea Salonga blockbuster animated adventure "Aladdin" (1992). Pinney's music was most recently used in the Jaden Smith hit action flick "The Karate Kid" (2010).
- I think this source would be useful in building the article, and it's definitely not a simple list of roles. Derbundeskanzler (talk) 18:30, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
- Actually, Hollywood.com does go in-depth about his career in the following paragraph on their site:
- Hi Snow Rise, first of all I would like to say that I am not a fan! Prior to coming across this article for deletion, I was only vaguely aware of Pinney and only because I had seen it here and there as a reference to voice overs. Also don't like animated films and loathe these cartoons on tv. There is now another source that "discusses Pinney beyond listing his name".
- Guys, I don't mean to discount your good-faith efforts here, but all any of these sources do is list credits; not a single one of them discusses Pinney beyond listing his name and the role he played. Further, only one of these sources comes anywhere close to meeting our WP:Reliable source standards. Please see WP:Notability; we need in-depth coverage of the topic and its impact, not a dozen different variations on a TV.com role list. I'm afraid that I can't change my !vote based on anything presented so far, and if these sources represent the best that two dedicated fans can dig up with several days to work at it, I daresay this is pretty conclusive evidence that this individual is non-notable, for the purpose of Wikipedia's policies on such. Snow let's rap 03:21, 13 April 2016 (UTC)
- I'm still adding to it Derbundeskanzler. I'm going to do more work on it as well. Karl Twist (talk) 13:02, 12 April 2016 (UTC)
- Derbundeskanzler (and Karl Twist) with respect, that's not how this works; in order for this article to survive the AfD, we're going to need to see sources which establish the topic's WP:NOTABILITY--as a practical matter, we can't just go on the blanket and unqualified assumption that "it's definitely notable!". Are you really certain there are sources out there that meet our WP:RS standards and are suitable to establishing notability for this man under WP:GNG or WP:ACTOR? Because several of us have looked and found nothing. If you're certain they exist and want this article to stay, the WP:BURDEN is on you to provide them now, not just assurances that those sources "must" exist and will show up some day. If you can find said sources, I will happily change my !vote, but the AfD process requires more than guesswork. Snow let's rap 01:44, 11 April 2016 (UTC)
- I have a hard time seeing how those observations are anything but a list of his roles--they don't speak to the quality of his acting in those roles, his career in the industry, his influence or status, or anything but the fact that he played those roles. Also, hollywood.com is not RS.
- That said, the Agents of Shield review Karl found above definitely takes us a step in the right direction--that's the kind of (at least somewhat) detailed coverage that we're looking for here. I don't think that one paragraph is quite enough to base an article on in and of itself, but it does show that some media sources have shed some light on the nature and quality of Pinney's work as a voice actor. I'll make some more efforts to turn something up; if we can just find one or two more sources with that level of coverage, I'll be satisfied that the minimum requirements of GNG have been met, and will switch my !vote, which should be enough to get this closed as a Keep. In the meantime, I'd like to request that anyone coming upon this discussion and contemplating a close waits to do so just a bit longer, so we can dig a little deeper on this. Snow let's rap 06:31, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
- Thanks User:Snow Rise, there's a bit here about Pinney in the Modesto Bee where his name is mentioned six times. The article by Marijke Rowland is fun reading too. Comedic ‘Unnecessary Farce’ slams into Sierra Rep. Pinney is notable but one that needs improvement with work and searching. Can be both interesting fun and tiring. Karl Twist (talk) 12:59, 15 April 2016 (UTC)
- That said, the Agents of Shield review Karl found above definitely takes us a step in the right direction--that's the kind of (at least somewhat) detailed coverage that we're looking for here. I don't think that one paragraph is quite enough to base an article on in and of itself, but it does show that some media sources have shed some light on the nature and quality of Pinney's work as a voice actor. I'll make some more efforts to turn something up; if we can just find one or two more sources with that level of coverage, I'll be satisfied that the minimum requirements of GNG have been met, and will switch my !vote, which should be enough to get this closed as a Keep. In the meantime, I'd like to request that anyone coming upon this discussion and contemplating a close waits to do so just a bit longer, so we can dig a little deeper on this. Snow let's rap 06:31, 14 April 2016 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:25, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 09:25, 16 April 2016 (UTC)
- Comment This article was nominated for speedy deletion, i believe i could be improved on.--cyberCHRoxE-- (talk) 07:32, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
- Hi --cyberCHRoxE--, I have had a look at the history here and the article has never been nominated for speedy deletion. It was given an Article for deletion tag this month as per "This article is being considered for deletion in accordance with Wikipedia's deletion policy". I'm working to improve the article and here is what the article looked like before I started on it. And here is where I'm up to so far. I'm not finished yet. BTW: Nominated for speedy deletion is different from nominated for deletion. Thanks Karl Twist (talk) 10:16, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
- Keep - It looks like Karl Twist has added quite a few reliable sources to the article that prove Pinney's notability. I might edit the article myself to add "cite web" templates to the references, but I'm happy with the sources themselves. Capcapandgengen (talk) 23:38, 25 April 2016 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.